VBB 377 Ashley Jordan: The Cost of Being The “Good Girl!"

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Virgin, Beauty, Bitch, Podcast, Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share

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unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different.

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Your hosts, Christopher and Heather, let's talk, shall we?

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Who are we really?

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One element unique to womanhood as far as identity is concerned are the social, cultural, family,

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religious and gendered expectations that are often internalized as "good girl syndrome?"

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Maybe you've heard of it?

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Well, what does that mean and how is it a problem?

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That's our conversation today with a licensed attorney who's also a nationally recognized

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journalist with biolines in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Guardian and Huff

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Post.

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She's also a sought after speaker and author of a fantastic book, "Unhappy Achiever,"

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rejecting the "good girl image" and reclaiming the joy of inner fulfillment.

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Welcome Ashley Jordan, to Virgin, Beauty, Bitch.

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Thank you so much.

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I am so delighted to be here.

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Thank you for having me.

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You're ecstatic to have you.

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Now, Ashley, identity, that's our focus today, but as a woman who writes from a feminist perspective,

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we thought we might get your insights on our first theme and the letter B, which represents

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the betrayal.

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Any thoughts you can share on betrayal as a woman in a so-called man's world?

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You know, it's interesting.

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I think the way that I would have answered this question five years ago is very different

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than the way that I would answer it today.

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I think that the biggest betrayal we can suffer, not just as women, but as human beings,

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is when we betray ourselves based on how we show up in the world.

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And so I think, you know, talking about the good girl and really looking at the way I was

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conditioned to be a good girl and sort of the roles that I had to assume and the masks

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that I had to wear to do that.

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Certainly, the social pressure, the conditioning, the expectations, the pleasing, the approval,

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certainly that is all its own form of betrayal.

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But for me, what I've realized sort of on the other side of that journey is that the deepest

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betrayal is when we don't walk the path of our own, what I call, unbecoming.

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We often hear the word becoming and I prefer to use unbecoming instead because becoming

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to me means we're trying to get somewhere else.

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We're trying to become better than we are.

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I don't think that we need to become someone different or someone else.

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I think we already were and are everything we were born to be, the moment we were born.

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It's just that all of that stuff got piled on as when we were children and as we walked

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our paths, right?

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And so they sort of, all of that junk, skewers the beautiful beings that we were when

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we were born.

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So we don't have to become anything.

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The process is really just unbecoming, all of the stuff that disconnected us from ourselves

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that taught us that we had to be good instead of authentic.

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And so for me, we're living in a time that can feel very disempowering, like so much is

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that side of our own control.

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And for me, what I've realized, the one thing that I can control, no matter what else is

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happening outside me, is the work I'm doing inside of me and how that translates into

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how I show up in the world.

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And to me, that looks like being my most badass, authentic, brazen, loving, kind, compassionate

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self in the world.

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And remembering that I always have control over that takes me from feeling disempowered to

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feeling like a disempowered good girl to being an empowered woman in the world.

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So to be devil's advocate, what would it actually have said five years ago?

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Well, I think I would have focused that answer more on everything that I acknowledge to begin

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with.

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It isn't that we don't acknowledge the things and everything that exists outside of us

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that disempowers us, that subjugates us.

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But at a certain point, we have to say, okay, now what?

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What do I do?

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Things externally aren't looking the way that I would like them to.

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So what can I do internally to change that?

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And for me, what that looks like is the more that I've shown up as myself, the more that

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I've realized the power, the personal power that we actually hold.

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We may not necessarily be able to change who wins an election, but we can absolutely

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change someone's day by how we show up in an Uber, by how we show up at the grocery

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store, by how we show up at work.

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And that all matters.

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And I think that we should not underestimate the transformative power of more and more people

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taking that journey, going from the good girl image to inner fulfillment.

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Like that to me impacts not just who I am as a woman, it impacts who I am as a mother,

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a partner, a friend, a sister, a daughter, and I've watched it transform the people around

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me.

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And so to me, like that is what gives me hope.

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Every time I have a conversation with someone around this book who is walking a similar path

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and stepping into their own purpose and becoming an unbecoming into their most empowered selves

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in the world, to me, that gives me hope.

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That feels empowering.

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That feels inspiring.

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I so appreciate you talking about unbecoming since we are such a performance driven, focused

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society in world.

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And I think that what I'm loving about that is that achievement or performance can look

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like identity, but it's often compliance with expectations.

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So from your vantage point, can you help us unpack how our listeners may be able to start

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to unfuse performance or achievement with people who are saying to themselves, "I'm not

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sure who I am without my accomplishments."

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So this is such a great question because it was actually a conversation that I had with

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my partner just this week.

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And I love him for this.

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It inspires me.

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He always comes from a place of how can I improve?

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How can I get better?

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And so we have this conversation around it because to me, that's on the one hand, can be

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a really healthy perspective, right?

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When it means I'm always learning, I'm always growing, I'm always open to evolution.

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That's sort of the healthy side of it.

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I think the unhealthy, unhappy achieving side of it is I need to get better, right?

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I'm not good enough as I am.

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And so the same is true for using achievements to sort of earn love, to earn praise, to earn

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your worthiness, prove your worthiness.

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And so it's not that achieving is all bad in and of itself, it's what is the energy behind

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it?

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And so the best way I put this is, if we are all facets on a beautiful diamond, then I

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think that our lives are meant to teach us how to polish ourselves over and over again.

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So we just continuously shine brighter in the world.

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How can you make your facet on this diamond of life even more sparkly than it was before?

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That's a beautiful thing.

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We should always be doing that.

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But don't forget, you're a diamond already, right?

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So you don't have to become someone else.

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You already are.

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I also heard it put this when I always come back to it.

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It's like, um, unclench your fist and there it is.

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So often when we are trying to achieve or trying to become a different version of ourselves,

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we lose sight of the fact that everything we need to be, that we are born to be, we already

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are.

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And so it's not bad to follow your passions and to achieve as long as you're coming from

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a place of, I'm already enough.

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I am already whole.

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I am doing this from a place of pursuing a life that lights me up, of joy, of passion, of

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love, not to prove that I'm worthy of joy, of passion, of love.

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And I think that is the most important distinction.

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When did you come to that distinction of this performance piece of what we need to do

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in order to gain love, gain whatever it is that the world tells us we need to gain?

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And quiet that down into looking internally.

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What happened in your life that that switch came on?

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Well, you know, I always say, I wish I could tell you that I had this epiphany one day that

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I was 37 years old and I had no idea who I was.

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But that is not what happened.

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I think I, two major things I would say, one is, and this is where the title Unhappy

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Achiever came from, I, you know, as a writer, when I started writing professionally, I thought

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it's, you know, it's every writer's dream to get published by The New York Times.

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And so I had that goal always in the back of my mind and I thought, ah, when I do that,

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then I can relax.

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I can chill out.

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I'll really feel like I've made it, right?

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That's the validation I need to feel like I'm doing this.

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And I did it.

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And I did it pretty quickly in terms of my career.

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And after I did it, I didn't feel the way that I thought I would feel.

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I really didn't feel partly anything.

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And I realized I was already sort of discounting what I'd done.

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And like, okay, now what?

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And so I literally Google searched, what does it mean?

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When you achieve a major milestone and you feel nothing.

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And the first article that popped up was, are you an Unhappy Achiever?

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And it was a gut-check moment of, yes, I think that I am.

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Right?

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And I love that, you know, and I think that what I've found with that title is so many of

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the folks that I get to meet with around the book say, when they hear that title, like,

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oh my god, yes, I'm an Unhappy Achiever.

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But sometimes it takes hearing that way to really start to identify it for ourselves.

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And then I would say the other component that really set me on this path was, you know,

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I suffered a devastating loss of someone very, very close to me when I was 13 years old.

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And it was very sudden, unexpected.

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You know, they lost them in a very tragic way and traumatic way.

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And like so many, you know, I really didn't have the space or the support to grieve that.

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And especially as a kid, right?

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You have no idea how to handle something like that.

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And so I buried it.

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And it wasn't until right around my 37th birthday that an unexpected trigger sent 24 years of

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repressed traumatic grief sort of crashing into my psyche.

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And I didn't know what was happening to me.

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But what that did for me was it took me from sort of running through my life, like I was

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running out of time.

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If I only had this one life to live, then I had to do it all.

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And I was, you know, every birthday was like a reminder that I was running out of time

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to do it.

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And so I went from that way of living to sort of down on my knees overnight.

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And as anyone knows, when you're in a space of extreme emotional pain, suffering, the best

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you can do in that space is sort of breathe and be.

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Like you literally can't, you're just surviving.

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And ironically, it was in that space of intense darkness that I finally stopped.

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And I was running.

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And was forced to sit with myself.

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And in that space, I started to find myself again for the first time since I was 13 and

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realize that I didn't know myself that I'd lost her behind all of the masks, the good girl,

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the good wife, right?

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Good girls grow up to be good women, good wives, good daughters, and good mothers.

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And in all of those roles, I lost, I lost me completely.

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I didn't know myself at all.

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And that was shocking to realize.

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And to realize that I had built a life that was externally perfect.

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It had all of the things we're told will make us happy.

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And I was numb.

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I didn't feel anything.

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And so the book is really about what does it look like when you've built a life from that

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place, right, from the good girl, the unhappy achiever.

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You've built a life from the outside in.

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And then you have to sort of deconstruct that life, literally piece by piece, to rebuild

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one from the inside out that lights you up.

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I think it's helpful for our listeners, you know, because since so much has changed in

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this world we live in now between what constituted as a good girl in previous generations to a

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good girl now.

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One thing I feel remain the same, you know, that she's agreeable self-sacrificing, high

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achieving for the pride of her family and for her, the people she cares about, emotionally

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convenient, perhaps responsible.

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And you know, as you've outlined, which was so well said, she's rewarded by her parents,

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by her partner, by her children, for being these ways until she isn't.

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When as you've said, she wakes up one day and looks at her life saying, "I should be feeling

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fulfilled with these things that I've achieved, but I feel numb, I feel hollow, I've been taking

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on things because of a perception of me that I too have bought into."

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And I'd love to explore a little further with you what's so addictive about the rewards

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that we get from being that good girl and more importantly, what are the costs?

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That's a great question.

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The rewards that we get are, I think the things that we're conditioned to seek, good girls

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are taught to abide by a definition of goodness that is defined by everyone outside of them.

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Right?

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So your taught that good equals love.

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If I am very, very good, the people closest to me, starting with my parents, will love me.

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And so good becomes safe.

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If I am very good, I am safe.

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No one will hurt me.

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And interestingly, we start to use that goodness to try to control the world around us.

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And I don't mean on a conscious level, but in a subconscious way, right?

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Because if you're always being the nice girl, the good girl, it's very, very hard to ever

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be the authentic woman, the empowered woman.

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They just don't coexist, right?

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You can be kind.

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But nice?

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That's, you know.

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I think that I am more kind today than ever.

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I hope to God nobody says I'm nice.

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I'm done being nice.

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I'm much more interested in being knee and being authentic because I think that that is

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the most loving way to show up in the world.

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I think that is the safest way to show up in the world.

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I'm never unkind, but I'm also never in authentic or dishonest.

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I hold integrity as my highest value.

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And in order to do that, you have to be a badass, you know, you, and all of the ways women

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are told not to, you have to be willing to say the thing, right?

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That's uncomfortable sometimes.

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You have to be willing to love yourself enough to say no, to say, you know, I'm no longer

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participating in relationships that are when cited, where I'm pouring all of myself in

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an overgiving to earn love and approval, but I'm receiving nothing close to reciprocation

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in return, right?

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It's all those little things that we learn to do that just chip away at our sense of

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self.

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And, you know, it's so funny because we hear a lot about boundaries and I tend to be careful

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when I use that word because depending on how people talk about them, sometimes they

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just become another form of control.

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Like, if you don't behave the way I want to, I'm sending up my phone.

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I'm a boundary with you, right?

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You're out.

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And that's, that's not.

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I don't think the, the healthiest use of them.

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But what is a healthy and appropriate use of boundaries in, in my opinion is making sure

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that we understand that people will only ever treat us as well as we treat ourselves.

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People will only ever love us in as much as we love ourselves.

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And that is just a truth.

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And when you really start to live into that, you start to see that play out in your life.

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And sometimes it plays out in the fact that people fall away.

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Initially, you lose some people.

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Not the ones who are meant for you forever, they'll stay.

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Those are the ones who love you unconditionally.

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But the ones who, who preferred an inauthentic version of you, they'll leave.

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And that's okay because it creates space for the truest relationships of your life, whether

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romantic, whether professional, whether friendships.

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And relationships with your children to evolve and to reflect who you truly are and who you've

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always been at your core.

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And that isn't a nice girl.

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That is a true woman.

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That is a badass woman or man or any other gender expression identity.

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It is, who are you?

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Give people, give the world you until you is what they want.

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I'm finding it fascinating that a lot of what you talk about, as far as the actions you

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need to take in order to fulfill that self-recognition, you use the word badass for us as bitch.

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Does that word resonate with you and how does that word resonate with you?

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It does resonate with me.

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It does.

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You know what?

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I would also use the word which.

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I think that's a great one too.

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I have a bitch.

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Right?

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I have a chapter of my book called "Princesses and Witches" and I love that because I feel like

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my generation, we are really raised on those Disney princess movies.

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So I feel like the good girl is based on that.

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If you do all of these things, whatever your prince is will come and you'll have this beautiful

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life and there will be blue birds singing.

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I think that was something I, whether I knew it consciously or not, that I held in my heart.

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Then I say, at 37 and got to the place, the fairy tale was promised.

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And instead of hearing blue birds, I realized that I was a princess and that being a witch

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would have been a whole lot more fun.

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I guess the distinction we make is...

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Unlock your powers.

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I guess the distinction we make is which has become sort of a glamorized identity these days.

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Words bitch still remains couched and not the first identity you want to present to the

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world.

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So I think that's what we make the distinction.

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One of them still has a very, very dark stripe to how the world views it.

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I think that's a great point.

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I think for me, I think getting to this place of deep embodied self love.

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And I don't want to sit here and say that that was, you know, "Oh, I just talk.

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I just woke up one day and I emerged from this grief, journey, and realized I was an unhappy

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achiever and I just loved myself so much."

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No.

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That's also the point of the book.

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The road to your truest self, the road to true embodied self love is messy.

302
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I always say, "If you want to emerge as the butterfly, you're going to have to be reduced

303
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to caterpillar consume over and over and over again sometimes, right?"

304
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And for me that has certainly been true.

305
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Like I wanted to show the messiness of the journey, not just the magic, because that's important.

306
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Because when you're in that, we need to know that we're not alone, but what makes it worth

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it, one thing I should say, because there are many, but one thing that makes it worth it,

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is because when you get to that other side where you are really walking in your own inner

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alignment, you don't care what the world says about you because you know who you are.

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There is nothing anyone can say about you that you yourself do not already know.

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And that takes the power out of any word, right?

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Bitch, what I don't know.

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I've been called them all.

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So I don't.

315
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And five years ago, you know, it destroyed me.

316
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It was to be called bitch, which crazy, you know, selfish, right?

317
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That's a word we really like to love against women who start to choose themselves and don't

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just murder themselves in every aspect of their lives and aren't completely self-sacrificing.

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We call them selfish and it's not selfishness.

320
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It's actually self-love.

321
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:09,920
And so getting to that place of deep confidence, bad asser-y, bitchiness, whatever you want to

322
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call it, that is your liberation.

323
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That is freedom, right?

324
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That is a heaven on earth we can create for ourselves.

325
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I'm glad you highlighted selfishness because to me, a big piece of identity or maybe one of

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the many facets in the diamond is desire.

327
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And there's so many ways over so many eras that woman's desire was unmanageable or needed

328
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,960
to be suppressed or was seen as dangerous.

329
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:49,720
So talking witches or talking, you know, our sexual liberation, just having a pulse for what

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00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:59,000
you truly like and love and are invigorated by has been a very purposeful, I think, collective

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suppression from powers that be.

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So, you know, I think that when women are really tapping into what they desire, what lights

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00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:15,880
them up, what makes them feel vibrant, what makes them feel effordescent, that it can feel

334
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selfish.

335
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:23,880
It can feel like you are overindulging when you have all of these other roles and responsibilities.

336
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You know, I think the common narrative in today's world is really building up women's

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right to be able to step into that light.

338
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And I'd love to know your thoughts on your reframe of desire within the context of identity.

339
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:51,720
So I think desire is such an important thing to touch on because I personally believe

340
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that our deepest desires, I call them our holy of holies, right?

341
00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:04,200
But they're the things deep inside of us that we can't forget, right?

342
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,280
Sometimes they feel like an ache, a longing for something that we can see for ourselves,

343
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:10,280
right?

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Like our deepest desire, our most sacred precious dream.

345
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And one of those for me was a true love partnership.

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You know, the person that I lost at 13 was a childhood sweetheart and he showed me even as

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children sort of what unconditional love looked like.

348
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And we don't always recognize that when we're in the presence of it, but we sure recognize

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it when we're in the absence of it.

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And so when that sort of woke up in me at 37 after I had buried it with him, I remembered

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00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:54,880
what that felt like and I had to really look at the fact that I didn't have that in my

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own partnership, that that was a truth that maybe I hadn't been consciously aware of for

353
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a long time, but now I was.

354
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And now I couldn't, I couldn't unknow what I knew then.

355
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And to be married to a partner, to a man who is a good man, he wasn't unfaithful, he wasn't

356
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abusive.

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But we were not connected in all of the ways that we could have been as partners to each

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other.

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We were not aligned in all of the ways we could have been.

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And the more I stepped into the truest version of me, the more obvious that became because

361
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I think even with him, I had constructed a version of me.

362
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,360
You know, I pretended to bake cookies when I met him.

363
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:45,480
Like that's a silly example.

364
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,920
I have baked cookies really since, except maybe occasionally with my kids, but I was performing.

365
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:51,920
Right?

366
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:58,400
I was performing a version of me that I thought would be desirable for someone else instead

367
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of being the woman that I desire in the world and trying and living into the desires I held

368
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,440
in my heart.

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And so realizing that in my partnership, you know, it took me three years to realize that

370
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I had to leave that.

371
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,240
In the words of Elizabeth Gilbert, liberation is always a two way street.

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And if it wasn't right for me, it wasn't right for him and it wasn't right for our children.

373
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But my gosh, the repercussions for a woman who leaves a longstanding partnership and a good

374
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,400
man are horrible, horrible.

375
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,680
The things that I was called, even by my own family, you know, talk about selfish, talk

376
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,680
about crazy.

377
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:50,400
I was told, maybe if you get on medication, you could stay, like numb yourself to stay in

378
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:51,800
your marriage.

379
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:57,800
And so we can say that women are so much better off today than they were a hundred years ago.

380
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And indeed, that's true.

381
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:05,400
But I would also argue that a lot of the ramifications for women who step out of line by doing things

382
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:13,560
like leaving a longstanding partnership and a good man because their hearts are calling

383
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,320
them to do so and they know it's the truest thing are treated horribly.

384
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,440
You know, I had good friends of mine whose husbands said they weren't allowed to be my

385
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,040
friend anymore because they were scared that divorce would be like a disease that could

386
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,040
be caught.

387
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:37,560
If one woman was crazy enough to walk away from a man with six figure salary times three,

388
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:42,200
a one million dollar home, cars, degrees with nothing.

389
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:47,320
If one woman was willing to do that, maybe their wives would be willing to do that, right?

390
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:53,480
And it's shocking to see and it was absolutely one of the most brutal things I've had to walk

391
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:54,480
through.

392
00:28:54,480 --> 00:29:02,120
But now, here I am three years later, I am in a, I have more unconditional love in every

393
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:08,280
aspect of my life, from my work to my friendships to my relationship with my children and now

394
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:14,400
to a true love partnership that is unlike even the dream that I held for myself.

395
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:22,320
Like I couldn't even imagine what love like this with a partner could be and I'm so

396
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:29,840
glad that I walked through all of that darkness because of what I knew to be true in here.

397
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,960
Actually, do you know why we have these conversations?

398
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,400
We have these conversations as a form of awareness.

399
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:51,080
I think a lot of people have the desire, but if they don't see an example of it, it's almost

400
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,800
impossible for them to enact that.

401
00:29:54,800 --> 00:30:04,160
So what you just shared for us is beyond gold for those who have that desire, but have

402
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:10,120
no north star of a focus of someone who's done that.

403
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,440
Who's willing to speak about the darkest part of it, not just what came out from the other

404
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:20,120
end, but what they had to go through to get there.

405
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:27,280
We cannot tell you how meaningful that is for us and that's what this whole series that

406
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:36,680
we put together is about is to get to the story that actually is real.

407
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,320
So thank you.

408
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,240
Thank you so much for that.

409
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,320
Thank you.

410
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,320
Thank you.

411
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:52,520
I think it is, you know, the whole point of unhappy achiever of the book was to be a diary

412
00:30:52,520 --> 00:31:00,240
for those who dare to walk similar paths, who dare to be free and knowing that it can get

413
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:06,800
so lonely in that space and it was the book that I wish I would have had.

414
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:11,600
And so for everyone who feels alone, who feels like they're not sure if they can do it,

415
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:17,480
if they'll survive, because it does at some point feel like life and death.

416
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:25,840
And for everyone in that place, I wanted them to be able to pick up a book that read like

417
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,680
a best friend's diary and know that there's nothing wrong with them.

418
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,200
They're not crazy.

419
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,840
They're not selfish.

420
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:40,680
If one very ordinary, marvelously mortal woman can conjure the courage to literally transform

421
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:47,280
every major aspect of her life in five years, then they absolutely can too and will live

422
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,280
to tell the same tale.

423
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:56,800
And the reason we use the word bitch, it is that dark path that must be traveled.

424
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:02,880
However, the liberation, the freedom on the other end is what awaits.

425
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:09,200
That's why we use that word, because it represents something that a lot of women will not even

426
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,800
consider, but it's a space you have to walk through to get to the other side.

427
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:16,440
That's why we apply that word.

428
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:25,440
It is absolutely the space that you have to walk through, because I'm going to seal this

429
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:32,600
from the alchemist, which is a beautiful book about pursuing your personal treasure.

430
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,280
What is your personal treasure?

431
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,720
What is your holy of holies?

432
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,960
What is your deepest desire?

433
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:44,000
And I think for all of us, one thing that I think we all share is that desire for true freedom,

434
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,720
true liberation.

435
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:52,360
To live into the absolute most authentic expression of yourself in the world.

436
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,360
And that looks different for all of us, but the feeling of that and the knowing that we

437
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,640
experience when we are in that place is absolutely universal.

438
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,840
And I think that's the beauty, you know?

439
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,920
I mean, to hear you speak of where you are now and the five-year journey that it took

440
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:16,120
to get there, the courage it took to leave something that isn't on the surface what others

441
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,400
would leave a lifestyle or decisions that had been made.

442
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:26,960
So the way that you framed it with conjuring the courage, I mean, that just speaks to us so

443
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,640
deeply.

444
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:34,520
And could you leave our listeners with after walking through these five years?

445
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:40,600
How do you feel that it now affects how you make decisions differently or that you no longer

446
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:45,960
ask for permission to exist in your authentic self?

447
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,760
Just would love to hear how you feel that coming out on the other side of it has influenced

448
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,000
your day to day today.

449
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,320
Fantastic question.

450
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,200
And this is really important.

451
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,080
I trust myself above all else now.

452
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,720
And as a good girl, part of the disempowerment that comes with us is being convinced that

453
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,400
everybody knows more than we do, that we constantly have to look outside of ourselves to know

454
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,440
things for truth.

455
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:21,440
And it's absolutely absurd, the way that we're taught to believe that, that we look to others,

456
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:28,880
whether it's our friends, our family, a boss, whoever it is, to tell us what to do about

457
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,200
the most intimate, sacred aspects of our lives is absolutely silly.

458
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:40,320
You are the expert in your own path, in your own life, in your own journey above all else.

459
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,480
I do not care how great your therapist is.

460
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:43,880
I do not care.

461
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:44,880
That's awesome.

462
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:51,020
I've had more than one fantastic therapist and I'm so grateful to them, but they do not

463
00:34:51,020 --> 00:34:55,520
know more than me about what's right for me, what's meant for me.

464
00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:04,560
And you're, we have wisdom inside of us, that we have to uncover, because that is the only

465
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:14,280
compass we can use to truly find our way to freedom, to liberation, to bad assay, you

466
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,160
know, whatever it is.

467
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:22,280
And for me, that trust in myself was tested a thousand times.

468
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:31,320
And in the end, everything I believed, every desire, my holy of holies, was absolutely right.

469
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,520
And that was my North Star.

470
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:39,520
That's what I held to when everything around me seemed like it was falling apart when I really,

471
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,200
when my mind compelled me to question my heart.

472
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:50,800
And so I think that's the biggest thing I can say is trust yourself.

473
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,120
You know not your mother, right?

474
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,360
Not your, not, not even your partner sometimes, right?

475
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,360
You know they're, they love you.

476
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,600
They mean well, but they are not the expert in your experience.

477
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:06,600
You are.

478
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:14,800
And so for women, taking back that power, that, that control over their own lives is absolutely

479
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:15,800
critical.

480
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:20,760
And we have a bitch in that way, if no other way.

481
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,880
I love that you said that because my kind of final question for you was, you know, we're

482
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:31,720
really going down this amazing journey this year, particularly in the year of the bitch.

483
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:38,360
And we've highlighted what people feel as an initial response, how they've been called

484
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:39,840
it over time.

485
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,960
Perhaps how they've released its power over time.

486
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:50,200
But from your vantage point, what does the bitch after this conversation mean to you?

487
00:36:50,200 --> 00:37:00,480
I think for me, the bitch is the part of me that, you know, I actually, there's a chapter

488
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,960
of the book called Dylan and it's about Bob Dylan.

489
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:08,520
And I say it was, you know, it was maybe weird to fall in love with Bob Dylan in your late

490
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:16,760
30s, but what I felt, why I fell in love with Bob Dylan is because Bob Dylan doesn't, doesn't

491
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,760
give a crap.

492
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,120
I just don't think it's a crap.

493
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:27,020
And so when I watched this documentary on him and his life and his music, that's what I

494
00:37:27,020 --> 00:37:28,020
fell in love with.

495
00:37:28,020 --> 00:37:29,920
I was like, this guy doesn't care.

496
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:31,960
Like he is true to himself.

497
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,240
He creates the art he wants to create even when he was getting boot on stage and called

498
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,200
Judas, right?

499
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:39,720
He didn't, he didn't waver.

500
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:42,160
He could have, but he didn't.

501
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,320
And I think it was just a great, like what I fell in love with about Bob Dylan was what was

502
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,520
asking to be embodied in me.

503
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,440
And that was my inner bitch, right?

504
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:57,600
That was the part of me that's like, I will live on the razor sharp edge of realness for

505
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:03,720
the rest of my life, even if people call me a bitch, even if people don't want to be my

506
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:07,840
friend anymore, even if people threaten not to love me.

507
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,080
Like I love me and I trust.

508
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:15,720
And now I don't just trust, I absolutely know because I'm living it that the people who will

509
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:22,480
be your people will absolutely not only fall in love with the truest expression of you,

510
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:23,480
right?

511
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,200
Your big, beautiful bitch.

512
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,000
But we'll only be able to find you when you're living into that, right?

513
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,800
They can't find you when you're wearing the mask of the good girl or whatever that mask

514
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:38,720
looks like for you. They can only find you when you're being you in the world.

515
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:50,800
I wanted to point out that so in our acronym B is betrayal, I was identity, but T is trust,

516
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:51,800
right?

517
00:38:51,800 --> 00:39:01,280
Betrayal identity is an awareness, but T is the step that takes you to the transition and

518
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:02,800
it's trust.

519
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,160
You could not have nailed that if I had written it out for you better.

520
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,120
That was phenomenal.

521
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:11,120
Thank you.

522
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:17,800
We're definitely on the same wavelength here because that's very powerful.

523
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:19,960
That's beautiful.

524
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:20,960
That's beautiful.

525
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,880
I'm so delighted to hear that.

526
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,400
I've so enjoyed this conversation with the two of you.

527
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,040
So thank you again.

528
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:29,040
Thank you.

529
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,000
Really has been such a pleasure.

530
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:36,880
Give us directions to your book because it is must read.

531
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,160
Oh, thank you.

532
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:45,120
You can find unhappy achiever rejecting the good girl image and reclaiming the joy of

533
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:46,520
inner fulfillment.

534
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:54,520
Basically, anywhere books are sold in hardcover, in Kindle Edition, and also in audiobook,

535
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,240
on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all of those places.

536
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:01,440
You can also find me at Ash.

537
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,440
A-S-H.

538
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:03,440
H. Jordan.

539
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,960
J-O-R-D-A-N dot com.

540
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,160
And you can find the book at unhappyachiever.com as well.

541
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,360
I am so glad we found you.

542
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:17,840
I'm so glad we had this opportunity and you said yes to having this conversation.

543
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:18,840
It means a lot.

544
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,080
And I hope it means a lot to everyone who hears this.

545
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,200
Well, thank you for doing the incredible work that you're doing.

546
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,320
It's an honor to be here and to talk to your listeners and your audience.

547
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,960
And yeah, I am, this is the work that I love to do that I get to do.

548
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,920
And I am, this is the life that lights me up.

549
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,760
So thank you for being a part of it.

550
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:40,760
Kindred spirits.

551
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:41,760
Absolutely.

552
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,920
And okay, so this series continues.

553
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:52,200
Like I said, we said, B-I-T-C-H-2020, 26 is the Year of the Bitch.

554
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,200
So come on back.

555
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,000
You've been listening to.

556
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,240
The Virgin, the Beauty, and the Year of the Bitch.

557
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:00,240
Absolutely.

558
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:01,240
Find us like us.

559
00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:02,240
Share us.

560
00:41:02,240 --> 00:41:03,240
Bring your friends.

561
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:05,240
They're lovely for it.

562
00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:13,680
To become a partner in the V-B-B community, we invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com.

563
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,880
Like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.

564
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,760
And share us with people who are defiantly different.

565
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,480
Like you.

566
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:26,480
Until next time, thanks for listening.

567
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,060
(upbeat music)