April 26, 2026
VBB 374 Edy Nathan: The Bitch is Back, For You!
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Edy Nathan is a licensed therapist, certified sex therapist, hypnotherapist, and certified EMDR practitioner, as well as the author of "It's Grief: The Dance of Self-Discovery Through Trauma and Loss." We also admire her for giving us an iconic quote, one that has become a guiding star for our mission of women’s empowerment, and words we believe every woman should hear and adopt as their mantra.
Her quote: “I think that we, as women, have to learn how to be a Bitch, and become really good at it.”
For women, that line can be either misunderstood as an oxymoron. or used as a source of eternal motivation. Whichever side of the fence you’re on, we invited Edy to take a deep dive into our B.I.T.C.H, which means becoming your boldest self through exploring Betrayal, Identity, Trust, Change, and Healing, and turning what was once a painful word into a powerful pathway to self-empowerment. This is an honest, open, fierce, and uplifting discussion for you if your desire is to share your voice, honor your identity, and become the best version of yourself — unapologetically.
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Virgin, Beauty, Bitch, Podcast. Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique
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life experiences without fear of being defiantly different.
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Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.
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Let's talk, shall we?
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For eight years, Heather and I have been asking women their impression and experience with
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any of the words in our podcast name, Virgin, Beauty or Bitch.
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And consistently, Bitch has produced the most provocative quotes.
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But one quote in particular has remained top of mind with us for four years.
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In fact, it will be an important pillar in a foundation that Heather and I are building
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in support of women's growth and self-empowerment.
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But before I share that quote, I want to introduce the woman who gave it to us.
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She is a licensed therapist, certified sex therapist, hypnotherapist and certified EMDR practitioner.
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And also the author of It's Grief, The Dance of Self-Discovery through Trauma and Loss.
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Edy Nathan. Welcome back, Edy, to Virgin, Beauty, Bitch.
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So the Bitch is back, and it's really great to be here.
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Thank you for inviting me back.
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And who knew that one sentence, one comment could change the, maybe the trajectory of the
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meaning of your work or made you really think through things and you know, it's kind of like
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the work we do in life.
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It can be one view in the room, one pat on the back, one I love you, one bitchy statement
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that saved your life that can make all of the difference in the world.
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Absolutely.
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And we are honored to have you back with us.
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It's our Year of the Bitch, 2026, A year where we are exploring Btch as a path to women's
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personal growth and self-empowerment through five sequential stages:
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Betrayal, Identity, Trust, Change, and Healing, B.I.T.C.H.
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Essentially, we're turning a painful word into a pathway to women's personal growth,
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which is an idea you encouraged somewhat from your quote in November, 2022, when we asked
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you your connection to the word Bitch and you said this quote, "I think that we,
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as women, have to learn how to be a bitch and become really good at it."
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That line was off the top of your head, but it also came from deep within your heart.
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And it's a line that can be motivational or misunderstood.
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Can you help us maybe turn the latter into the former, the misunderstood, into the motivated
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by sharing your interpretation of those wise words?
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I don't know that we've got enough time for this discussion, guys.
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You know what I mean?
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We're talking about the essence of the feminine, the essence of, and I'm going really deep
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here, being cave dwellers and having to manage the cave, our queen, queen-dome, when we were
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left and really having to manage much more than just the gathering of food, and herbs, and
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being medicine people and our own kinds of shamans.
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We had to summon that Bitch, if you will, for survival.
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And there's nothing wrong with that.
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And we're living right now in a world where we may be undermined for having a voice or for
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believing that our freedoms are important or that we must have integrity and we must
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have identity and we must speak up, otherwise we'll be buried.
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And so the Bitch is not derogatory to me.
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It's our coming out party, no matter what your gender identification.
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Well, I really touched on something that Heather and I are really focused on.
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When we look at Betrayal, it's really instinct to look at our own betrayals in our lives,
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the things that have betrayed us, the people that have betrayed us.
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But what you've touched on there is womanhood's betrayal. Like all through history, how women
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have been betrayed by the systems and communities, whatever it might be.
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I really want to touch on that.
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Yes, yes, I interrupted you.
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I'm sorry, I'm so excited.
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And I just did it.
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Okay.
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I just did it.
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I betrayed myself.
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Why did I need to apologize?
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Why, like if I, yeah, I stepped on you and as a guest, I need to honor you and I need to
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honor, you know, both of you.
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And yet I apologized and it's that apology.
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It's a betrayal.
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It's a betrayal of a voice.
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I got excited.
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I broke in.
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And somehow it's like eat as much as I want to come up and be Bitch and I am and I can
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be, I can also retreat into small.
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And how that, the betrayal begins with the self.
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And I think that's something that so many women, especially can identify with, is feeling
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fierce and stepping into self assuredness and believing in themselves.
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But the grooming that has happened, you know, since birth around, you know, don't interrupt,
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make sure that you're creating space for others, make sure that you're almost following this
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protocol of preconceived notions of how social interactions should happen.
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You know, it's, I think it's very easy to fall back into, oh my gosh, I'm excited.
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I'm going to, you know, jump right in, perhaps before, you know, and that's important
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that you're excited.
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And you wanted to get your next thought in the grooming is, I think what Christopher spoke
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towards is it's so, it's so deeply embedded.
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And it's so, I want to almost say autopilot for so many of us.
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You got it right.
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It is autopilot.
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Yeah.
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And, and so to have, to have the voice, we're not going to, you know, we're imperfect, right?
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We're all imperfect.
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But to be able to take a moment and say, you know, man, I just did it.
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Is what, what I would love more of us to do, to have, to say, okay, that was a hiccup next.
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And I'm not going to follow it with shame.
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I'm not going to follow it with self-loathing or disgust.
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These are terms that I'm now using in my new work because they're uglier in some ways
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than shame.
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And, and, and, and we need to get down to the fact that first we need to honor our own
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Bitch, our own integrity, our own identity, our own sense of transcendence, and our ability
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to morph into more than the messages that were given to us by our primary caretakers who,
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for the most part, were women and who may very well have told us to play it small.
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They had to, for pure survival.
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That has changed somewhat and not all over the world, unfortunately.
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But in our, in our culture that has somewhat shifted, I wanted to ask you, you have so much
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faith, confidence, a bravado in your Bitch.
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How did you connect the dots of it being a shameful way to be, to being a powerful woman?
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What happened?
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Do you recall that?
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I would love to be able to just say there was that moment in time where a metamorphosis occurred
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and there was an awakening to the Bitch.
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I think though the Bitch is a gradual relationship for me.
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And it came, you know, really, every, the way that you identify Bitch, right?
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The trail, right?
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Perhaps it is a non-linear experience, but to think about the ways that I might have betrayed
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or betray myself and the ways that I no longer want to and the when the voice begins to get
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summoned.
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I'll never forget what I was, I was very much involved in the theater and I had a terrible
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time in junior high and high school.
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I was teased, I was bullied, it was just, just, blugh.
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But I went away to go to theater school, actually in high school and I came back to high, to
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that high school early and because I could graduate early and I was like, I, anything I could
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do to just get me out of school.
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And I auditioned for this play and the theater teacher who knew me, greener said, where
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did you get that voice?
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And it was like in that moment, I knew that I had transcended the bullies and the teasing
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and I could audition and I could show up with that voice.
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And I would say that that voice and being able to be in theater saved me in many ways and
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in being able to get involved in many different roles as a mask and when the masking of those
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roles came down when I left the theater and I had to find my natural voice that wasn't
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hidden between the actor.
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That was another revelation of how am I going to survive, how am I going to have a voice
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and who do I want to be?
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Such a beautiful bridge into the “I” of our BITCH, which is Identity.
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And I think that's when I hear a person, similar to how we started this conversation, one
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sentence or one feeling that really took you and opened up a whole new, many more doors
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for what you wanted to explore about yourself.
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No longer was it about the bullies or what other people had to say about you, it was about
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what you wanted to bring to the table in a safer space to try on different roles.
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So when it comes to identity and taking that kind of next leap into, okay, now I'm not
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what other people call me or tell me that I am.
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I'm something completely different.
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What has that process been like for you?
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Because I also feel like that's not linear, but constantly evolving, well, still they're
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being almost like a core that is true to you.
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So again, it's non-linear.
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So that it's not as if, and I really want your listening audience to hear this, it's
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not like I don't meet hiccups even now so many years later, okay, because I do and I go
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back to feeling voiceless or feeling crushed or feeling like I don't know what I'm doing.
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But part of the identity, and this is where the work of grief comes in and actually this
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new work that I was telling you a little bit about, Invisible No More, when there are traumatic
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imprints.
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And we all have them in one way or another to different degrees, but when they're of a
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predatory nature or even in there's a developmental violation, what happens to that identity is it
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gets crushed and we then need to say, I don't even know who I am anymore and we want to make
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ourselves invisible.
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To make ourselves visible is part of the reestablishment of and meeting of our identities.
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And that's personal, that's social, and that's sexual.
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And it's a trifecta.
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And that is what makes up, I believe, our identities and that's what the traumatic imprints leverage
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as a way to make one feel small.
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And I've had those experiences.
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I've had, I was at Oxford and I was in a group and I know Oxford, like I know the back of
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my hand.
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I mean I can walk it, I know it.
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And I ended up being ten minutes late to a group presentation and I cannot tell you how
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humiliated and how badly I felt.
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Now nobody in the audience would have known because I came in with that identity and with
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that personal social and sexual identity and I said, I feel like Dorothy and I'm, you know,
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I've gotten lost on the Yellow Brick Road, and I'm finally found Oz, and here I am.
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But when I left, I had such self-loathing and that's what I had to deal with.
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So I just, I guess I want to say that we can get better and we can get better and better
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and it doesn't mean that our creepy crawlers don't come in and annoy us and hurt us and
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affect the language of the Bitch.
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And I think that's what set me up for what I initially said, we need to know how to be
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better Bitches.
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And that was not just a message to you, to your audience, but to me too.
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I'm your audience.
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And I hear you say those elements of identity, personal, social and sexual as a trifecta
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and trifecta's got to be one of my favorite words.
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Oh, who knew?
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That word.
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You know, your work, certainly many avenues of your work but one being a sex therapist
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and really putting your sexual identity as a huge piece of the total part of self.
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You know, I think that, you know, as Christopher alluded to, so much has changed for women in
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North America if we want to call it the West and things continue to change globally with
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access to different, you know, thoughts and ways of being and moving.
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But similar to, again, where we started with grooming that starts at birth and despite,
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you know, a lot of progress that has made around women's identity to their sexual pulse and
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being comfortable with it and feeling deserving of pleasure and what all of that means.
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You know, if somebody's listening to this and perhaps this is very new for them and they
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want to start to understand their sexual identity beyond what, you know, is asked of them
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from a partner or asked of them of society but truly stepping into understanding their own
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sexual identity.
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What would you say to like help spark curiosity?
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And curiosity is one of my favorite words.
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So in this, in this new book that's not published and doesn't have a publisher yet.
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So, you know, just saying that, so I'm doing like some teasers, I've created something
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called, that I call the Liberation Protocol, and the Liberation Protocol begins with embodied
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curiosity.
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And what we as women often deny ourselves is an embodied curiosity about our, our feeling
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sense and of aromas and how we explore ourselves, our bodies, our emotions and we take moments
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of meaning to meet our body members because our bodies hold so many memories, they're
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good, they're not so good, they're painful, they're joyful and the exploration of the sexual
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self is so important.
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It's so important.
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And to even when do we as women and I think that we do at times ask the self, what gives
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me pleasure?
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Can I give myself that pleasure before I ask anyone to give it to me?
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Can I give myself permission to take a night and take a bath if you like baths or take
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a shower and see what it feels like on the skin to have cold water and warm water and to
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put an oil on or not and to explore language and to explore novels that may peak their interest
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or their curiosity and to understand that there is no need for self-loathing in the simplicity
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of being with their own souls, their sexuals.
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Getting quite misty.
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The shame of it all, Edy, is that women are shamed just to even think of their own body
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here.
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You are conditioned to understand that your body is for producing a child or for a man's
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pleasure.
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So from the day that you learn about sexuality, you have been conditioned not to think about
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yourself sexually, but as an instrument for others, which is something now you have to overcome
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to me is just another betrayal.
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Right?
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That's right.
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That's right.
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And we've got the lusciousness of our bodies and our bodies speak to us if we listen,
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if we listen, and women who are within the life cycle of a woman and the ever-changing
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evolution of the body and of the sensory elements of developing and mencees and aging and
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gaining weight or losing weight or childbirth where the way you knew your body doesn't necessarily
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exist.
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I actually have a term for that.
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And again, because women don't talk about it, they're just supposed to be so happy that
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they gave birth.
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Meanwhile, their vaginas are grieving.
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Or if they had a C-section, their bodies are grieving because there was pain and there
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was sensitivity and there's angst as much as there is joy.
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And that's not for every single woman, but I would say a fair amount.
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I don't have percentages.
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Certainly with menopause, thankfully the menopause conversation is out there far more.
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But again, we need to have an embodied curiosity about all the different ways our bodies are
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changing over time.
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And because of the environment and because of the relationships that we have, you know,
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whether they're cisgendered or not, whatever they are and whatever you have allowed yourself
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to engage in or with sexually, that's to have an embodied curiosity about how your body
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and your sexual, sensual self feels is a conversation that the bitch needs to have.
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Because it's part of identity.
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Yes. I want to swing that back around to something you said earlier, which is this self-loathing.
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You know, there's just so many elements or times or moments or stages of life or changes
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of body or changes of circumstance where that self-loathing creeps in in full strength.
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And I am just imagining that self-loathing as almost like a persona meeting the Bitch.
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Oh, I would love to hear them have a conversation because what would the Bitch say to self-loathing?
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Right. She would have a lot to say, I think.
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And I think she was, you know, and I don't necessarily think that it would be, you know,
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our traditional concepts of the Bitch that she would just kind of lay into self-loathing
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and tell it to go fly a kite.
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I think that, you know, this feminine, powerful, fierce sense of the Bitch that we're talking
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about in this year of the bitch, if she had a conversation with self-loathing, I think
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it would be like almost like a sassy aunt who, you know, sees like her niece crying over
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some boy or something that didn't go right.
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And it's more of a pick yourself back up girl because we got a lot that we want to get
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done and I know you got it.
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I know that you got it.
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So let's try to change this around.
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That's right.
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That's right.
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And to add to that, the sassy Bitch might say, come on girl, let's get liberated.
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Let's not stay in this self-loathing so that we can then get to self-love, which is really,
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really hard.
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That self-love is so hard.
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That conversation you both just had, it's something we have not unveiled.
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However, we have broken Bitch down into four different identities, four different characters.
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So it's not, it's not when women are confronted with this word Bitch, it is one demon that they
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see.
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We're trying to unveil that it's not just one demon character.
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It is very, very different levels of this word can be identified as.
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And some of it can be extremely encouraging and loving.
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We never think of Bitches as loving.
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Now.
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It is and it can be.
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That's what we're trying to bring to the forefront.
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It sounds like an oxymoron, the loving Bitch, right?
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But in a way, it is.
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It's like the loving Bitch is the one that says, stop being fused to the negativity.
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You're so much more than that.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Bitch says, come on, let's get liberated.
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And in a way that's like, and we're not backing down from that, we are going to go.
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We're going.
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Oh, yeah.
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And she's got to have that hand movement, you know, let's go baby.
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The bottom line is this individual, this version of Bitch survives in every single person.
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And women, especially because they are shamed with that word so much that they avoid it.
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They have cast it out of their life.
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They don't want anything to do with it.
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That means a part of yourself, a part of you, the strongest part of yourself, you've cast
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aside, which is the biggest shame for us of all is that you're doing this to yourself
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because someone has defined a word for you instead of you defining it for yourself.
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I like that.
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Can I use that?
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You can use that.
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We've used yours.
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You can use yours.
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It's a little fair exchange.
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But to me, that is the change, Christopher, right?
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That's the change that we're talking about is going from what we believe the word is or
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the immediate groomed response that we get when we hear it and not throwing the baby out
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with the bathwater.
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You know, if anything, there's, I want to say a lot in that bathwater, but that's probably
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not the right analogy.
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That's interesting.
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Yeah.
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The thing is, is that it's important to know that the bathwater is there and to see the
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trajectory of where we've been.
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So as we're growing, as we're nurturing that identity, okay, we're understanding how we
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betray ourselves first, that we can begin to see that the complexity of Bitch is actually
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allowing us to foster a greater intimacy with our own identity and self.
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You know what I find fascinating about your work and how it ties to ours is that in grief,
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that you call grief a hero and we see bitch as a hero as well.
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There it is.
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The action is powerful.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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Yes.
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It's funny.
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I just was just writing about that about, about, you know, how grief is a hero and that we
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don't think about it as such, but I think of a hero as a teacher, right?
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And so grief is one of our greatest teachers.
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Invited in and to partner with it rather than pushing it away, which just makes it get louder.
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And the more we want to ignore it, the louder it gets.
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And perhaps the louder that our voices become internally and the more we push them down,
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we then have the tentacles of the diagnoses, anxiety, depression, OCD, which is, you know,
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more in the brain, but still there can be OCD as a complement to, oh, I've got to push
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my voice down, erratic behavior, out of control of sexual behavior.
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Just keep the voice down.
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Keep the voice down.
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And if we can bring it up, if we can bring up the voice, we're then acknowledging the grief
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of having had to annihilate the voice.
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I call it the guillotine effect.
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Our heads get cut off.
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We're walking around with our head.
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Our bodies are cut off from our feelings and we're just completely disconnected and the
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goal is to become in sync.
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Love that analogy because I think that's what we do to human beings is we always
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want you from the head up.
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Okay, we don't want you feeling anything.
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Okay, which one is thinking the way that we want you to think?
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That's exactly right.
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Either head behind the body can, you know, do what it is.
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You can do what it wants, but it is so true.
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And the greatest example that I can give is a very public figure, Simone Biles at the
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Japan Olympics and she had something called the twisties.
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Now the twisties within their world, it's a word.
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It's an idea theory that's in their world where you really can't find the right place to
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land.
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And she was this star of an athlete, amazing athlete could not find her place to land.
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But what no one was talking about was she was getting all these accolades and accolades.
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But what had preceded that were she was very much engaged in the trials against the man
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who had abused her for multiple times.
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And they still had an expectation that her performance should be stellar and no one was talking about
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it.
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Want to talk about a silenced voice?
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Want to talk about like really like it was like suppress, suppress, suppress, it's got
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to come out somewhere.
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And that's where there was the twisties.
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Her body and mind were not in sync.
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Now her Bitch is out and I love listening to her hearing her speak and she's quite the
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advocate and that's her bitch and I love it.
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And thank you Simone Biles for that.
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I was going to say you know she took that time to reflect on what she needed.
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She took a break from the sports she loved and she honed in on what she wanted and who
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she is and how she wanted to move forward.
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So I applaud her in a world where you know it's been it's been an uphill battle for athletes
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to come out about abuse and you know the bravery of so many athletes to come forward to make
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that change and and to call to account.
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People who are in powerful positions that can either advance you forward or not.
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It's huge.
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I think her story is just such a powerful story.
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I take my hat off to her 10 billion times.
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That's right.
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And she has opened the doors for the women of our time in this moment in time to have voices.
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We don't need to bring up any names but to have voices and to tap into their bitch of
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freedom and of right of the right of being able to have a voice around something that has
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been secreted away.
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Edie, this has been I don't even know I can find the right word to express our gratitude
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for you.
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What do you believe and how you express it?
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It really has shaped.
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I've said this before.
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It has shaped Heather and I in a direction that we are going in and it was just one comment
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that started this cavalcade of momentum around this word and what it can mean to women in
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general no matter where you are, who you are, what culture and what doesn't matter your
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situation.
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But is to focus on a part of yourself that the world tells you is of no value.
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And if we can change that mindset, if we can allow even one woman to look in the mirror
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and see herself differently and pull out from herself that strength, this is amazing.
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This is amazing.
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You made me tear up.
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I, whatever I can do and I'm saying this to your audience to support you in this journey,
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I am 100% on board.
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I thank you for your work and for getting these messages out to the very people who need
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to know that their bitch is allowed and welcome at any time.
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Wonderful.
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I'd love to end kind of where we started in that, you know, the quote of let's just say
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inviting a world where women hear this sentence and think of it differently that, you know,
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we have a lot to gain from being better Bitches.
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So to our listeners, you know, if that stirs something in you, we hope that it does because
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it is, you know, it's a controversial word that we are unpacking and reimagining and evolving.
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So we would love to hear from you on how you are connecting with this work.
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But Edie, thank you so much for everything you bring to the table.
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It really is.
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It's like a North Star for a lot of what Christopher and I are working on.
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So we really appreciate it.
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Thank you.
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I so appreciate your work and being here and just keep the conversation going and be the
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best Bitch you can be.
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And if we can make a future date with you when your book comes out that we are able to share
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that with you and share that with our audience, we're definitely want to be top of that
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list when you get that completed.
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Thank you so much.
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And just right now, everyone, the working title is Invisible No More:
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Liberate the Self from Traumatic Wounds and Dare to Live.
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Dare to be a Bitch.
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Thank you so much, Edy.
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Thank you so much.
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And this is all coming to you from the Virgin Beauty and the best Bitch being created
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in the BITCH year 2026.
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And that Bitch could be you.
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Come on back.
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Find us like us.
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00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,200
Share us.
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00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,200
Come on back.
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00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:49,000
Come a partner in the VBB community,
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we invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com.
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00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:53,760
Like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
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00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,320
And share us with people who are defiantly different like you.
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00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,240
Until next time, thanks for listening.
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[Music]
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Virgin, Beauty, Bitch, Podcast. Inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique
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life experiences without fear of being defiantly different.
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Your hosts, Christopher and Heather.
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Let's talk, shall we?
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For eight years, Heather and I have been asking women their impression and experience with
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any of the words in our podcast name, Virgin, Beauty or Bitch.
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And consistently, Bitch has produced the most provocative quotes.
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But one quote in particular has remained top of mind with us for four years.
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In fact, it will be an important pillar in a foundation that Heather and I are building
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in support of women's growth and self-empowerment.
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But before I share that quote, I want to introduce the woman who gave it to us.
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She is a licensed therapist, certified sex therapist, hypnotherapist and certified EMDR practitioner.
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And also the author of It's Grief, The Dance of Self-Discovery through Trauma and Loss.
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Edy Nathan. Welcome back, Edy, to Virgin, Beauty, Bitch.
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So the Bitch is back, and it's really great to be here.
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Thank you for inviting me back.
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And who knew that one sentence, one comment could change the, maybe the trajectory of the
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meaning of your work or made you really think through things and you know, it's kind of like
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the work we do in life.
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It can be one view in the room, one pat on the back, one I love you, one bitchy statement
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that saved your life that can make all of the difference in the world.
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Absolutely.
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And we are honored to have you back with us.
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It's our Year of the Bitch, 2026, A year where we are exploring Btch as a path to women's
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personal growth and self-empowerment through five sequential stages:
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Betrayal, Identity, Trust, Change, and Healing, B.I.T.C.H.
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Essentially, we're turning a painful word into a pathway to women's personal growth,
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which is an idea you encouraged somewhat from your quote in November, 2022, when we asked
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you your connection to the word Bitch and you said this quote, "I think that we,
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as women, have to learn how to be a bitch and become really good at it."
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That line was off the top of your head, but it also came from deep within your heart.
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And it's a line that can be motivational or misunderstood.
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Can you help us maybe turn the latter into the former, the misunderstood, into the motivated
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by sharing your interpretation of those wise words?
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I don't know that we've got enough time for this discussion, guys.
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You know what I mean?
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We're talking about the essence of the feminine, the essence of, and I'm going really deep
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here, being cave dwellers and having to manage the cave, our queen, queen-dome, when we were
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left and really having to manage much more than just the gathering of food, and herbs, and
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being medicine people and our own kinds of shamans.
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We had to summon that Bitch, if you will, for survival.
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And there's nothing wrong with that.
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And we're living right now in a world where we may be undermined for having a voice or for
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believing that our freedoms are important or that we must have integrity and we must
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have identity and we must speak up, otherwise we'll be buried.
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And so the Bitch is not derogatory to me.
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It's our coming out party, no matter what your gender identification.
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Well, I really touched on something that Heather and I are really focused on.
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When we look at Betrayal, it's really instinct to look at our own betrayals in our lives,
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the things that have betrayed us, the people that have betrayed us.
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But what you've touched on there is womanhood's betrayal. Like all through history, how women
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have been betrayed by the systems and communities, whatever it might be.
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I really want to touch on that.
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Yes, yes, I interrupted you.
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I'm sorry, I'm so excited.
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And I just did it.
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Okay.
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I just did it.
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I betrayed myself.
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Why did I need to apologize?
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Why, like if I, yeah, I stepped on you and as a guest, I need to honor you and I need to
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honor, you know, both of you.
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And yet I apologized and it's that apology.
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It's a betrayal.
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It's a betrayal of a voice.
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I got excited.
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I broke in.
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And somehow it's like eat as much as I want to come up and be Bitch and I am and I can
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be, I can also retreat into small.
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And how that, the betrayal begins with the self.
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And I think that's something that so many women, especially can identify with, is feeling
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fierce and stepping into self assuredness and believing in themselves.
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But the grooming that has happened, you know, since birth around, you know, don't interrupt,
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make sure that you're creating space for others, make sure that you're almost following this
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protocol of preconceived notions of how social interactions should happen.
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You know, it's, I think it's very easy to fall back into, oh my gosh, I'm excited.
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I'm going to, you know, jump right in, perhaps before, you know, and that's important
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that you're excited.
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And you wanted to get your next thought in the grooming is, I think what Christopher spoke
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towards is it's so, it's so deeply embedded.
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And it's so, I want to almost say autopilot for so many of us.
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You got it right.
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It is autopilot.
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Yeah.
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And, and so to have, to have the voice, we're not going to, you know, we're imperfect, right?
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We're all imperfect.
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But to be able to take a moment and say, you know, man, I just did it.
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Is what, what I would love more of us to do, to have, to say, okay, that was a hiccup next.
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And I'm not going to follow it with shame.
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I'm not going to follow it with self-loathing or disgust.
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These are terms that I'm now using in my new work because they're uglier in some ways
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than shame.
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And, and, and, and we need to get down to the fact that first we need to honor our own
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Bitch, our own integrity, our own identity, our own sense of transcendence, and our ability
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to morph into more than the messages that were given to us by our primary caretakers who,
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for the most part, were women and who may very well have told us to play it small.
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They had to, for pure survival.
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That has changed somewhat and not all over the world, unfortunately.
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But in our, in our culture that has somewhat shifted, I wanted to ask you, you have so much
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faith, confidence, a bravado in your Bitch.
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How did you connect the dots of it being a shameful way to be, to being a powerful woman?
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What happened?
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Do you recall that?
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I would love to be able to just say there was that moment in time where a metamorphosis occurred
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and there was an awakening to the Bitch.
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I think though the Bitch is a gradual relationship for me.
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And it came, you know, really, every, the way that you identify Bitch, right?
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The trail, right?
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Perhaps it is a non-linear experience, but to think about the ways that I might have betrayed
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or betray myself and the ways that I no longer want to and the when the voice begins to get
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summoned.
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I'll never forget what I was, I was very much involved in the theater and I had a terrible
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time in junior high and high school.
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I was teased, I was bullied, it was just, just, blugh.
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But I went away to go to theater school, actually in high school and I came back to high, to
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that high school early and because I could graduate early and I was like, I, anything I could
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do to just get me out of school.
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And I auditioned for this play and the theater teacher who knew me, greener said, where
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did you get that voice?
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And it was like in that moment, I knew that I had transcended the bullies and the teasing
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and I could audition and I could show up with that voice.
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And I would say that that voice and being able to be in theater saved me in many ways and
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in being able to get involved in many different roles as a mask and when the masking of those
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roles came down when I left the theater and I had to find my natural voice that wasn't
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hidden between the actor.
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That was another revelation of how am I going to survive, how am I going to have a voice
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and who do I want to be?
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Such a beautiful bridge into the “I” of our BITCH, which is Identity.
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And I think that's when I hear a person, similar to how we started this conversation, one
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sentence or one feeling that really took you and opened up a whole new, many more doors
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for what you wanted to explore about yourself.
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No longer was it about the bullies or what other people had to say about you, it was about
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what you wanted to bring to the table in a safer space to try on different roles.
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So when it comes to identity and taking that kind of next leap into, okay, now I'm not
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what other people call me or tell me that I am.
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I'm something completely different.
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What has that process been like for you?
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Because I also feel like that's not linear, but constantly evolving, well, still they're
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being almost like a core that is true to you.
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So again, it's non-linear.
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So that it's not as if, and I really want your listening audience to hear this, it's
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not like I don't meet hiccups even now so many years later, okay, because I do and I go
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back to feeling voiceless or feeling crushed or feeling like I don't know what I'm doing.
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But part of the identity, and this is where the work of grief comes in and actually this
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new work that I was telling you a little bit about, Invisible No More, when there are traumatic
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imprints.
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And we all have them in one way or another to different degrees, but when they're of a
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predatory nature or even in there's a developmental violation, what happens to that identity is it
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gets crushed and we then need to say, I don't even know who I am anymore and we want to make
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ourselves invisible.
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To make ourselves visible is part of the reestablishment of and meeting of our identities.
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And that's personal, that's social, and that's sexual.
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And it's a trifecta.
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And that is what makes up, I believe, our identities and that's what the traumatic imprints leverage
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as a way to make one feel small.
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And I've had those experiences.
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I've had, I was at Oxford and I was in a group and I know Oxford, like I know the back of
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my hand.
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I mean I can walk it, I know it.
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And I ended up being ten minutes late to a group presentation and I cannot tell you how
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humiliated and how badly I felt.
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Now nobody in the audience would have known because I came in with that identity and with
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that personal social and sexual identity and I said, I feel like Dorothy and I'm, you know,
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I've gotten lost on the Yellow Brick Road, and I'm finally found Oz, and here I am.
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But when I left, I had such self-loathing and that's what I had to deal with.
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So I just, I guess I want to say that we can get better and we can get better and better
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and it doesn't mean that our creepy crawlers don't come in and annoy us and hurt us and
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affect the language of the Bitch.
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And I think that's what set me up for what I initially said, we need to know how to be
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better Bitches.
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And that was not just a message to you, to your audience, but to me too.
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I'm your audience.
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And I hear you say those elements of identity, personal, social and sexual as a trifecta
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and trifecta's got to be one of my favorite words.
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Oh, who knew?
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That word.
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You know, your work, certainly many avenues of your work but one being a sex therapist
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and really putting your sexual identity as a huge piece of the total part of self.
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You know, I think that, you know, as Christopher alluded to, so much has changed for women in
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North America if we want to call it the West and things continue to change globally with
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access to different, you know, thoughts and ways of being and moving.
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But similar to, again, where we started with grooming that starts at birth and despite,
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you know, a lot of progress that has made around women's identity to their sexual pulse and
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being comfortable with it and feeling deserving of pleasure and what all of that means.
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You know, if somebody's listening to this and perhaps this is very new for them and they
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want to start to understand their sexual identity beyond what, you know, is asked of them
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from a partner or asked of them of society but truly stepping into understanding their own
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sexual identity.
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What would you say to like help spark curiosity?
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And curiosity is one of my favorite words.
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So in this, in this new book that's not published and doesn't have a publisher yet.
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So, you know, just saying that, so I'm doing like some teasers, I've created something
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called, that I call the Liberation Protocol, and the Liberation Protocol begins with embodied
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curiosity.
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And what we as women often deny ourselves is an embodied curiosity about our, our feeling
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sense and of aromas and how we explore ourselves, our bodies, our emotions and we take moments
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of meaning to meet our body members because our bodies hold so many memories, they're
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good, they're not so good, they're painful, they're joyful and the exploration of the sexual
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self is so important.
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It's so important.
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And to even when do we as women and I think that we do at times ask the self, what gives
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me pleasure?
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Can I give myself that pleasure before I ask anyone to give it to me?
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Can I give myself permission to take a night and take a bath if you like baths or take
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a shower and see what it feels like on the skin to have cold water and warm water and to
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put an oil on or not and to explore language and to explore novels that may peak their interest
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or their curiosity and to understand that there is no need for self-loathing in the simplicity
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of being with their own souls, their sexuals.
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Getting quite misty.
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The shame of it all, Edy, is that women are shamed just to even think of their own body
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here.
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You are conditioned to understand that your body is for producing a child or for a man's
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pleasure.
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So from the day that you learn about sexuality, you have been conditioned not to think about
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yourself sexually, but as an instrument for others, which is something now you have to overcome
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to me is just another betrayal.
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Right?
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That's right.
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That's right.
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And we've got the lusciousness of our bodies and our bodies speak to us if we listen,
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if we listen, and women who are within the life cycle of a woman and the ever-changing
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evolution of the body and of the sensory elements of developing and mencees and aging and
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gaining weight or losing weight or childbirth where the way you knew your body doesn't necessarily
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exist.
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I actually have a term for that.
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And again, because women don't talk about it, they're just supposed to be so happy that
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they gave birth.
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Meanwhile, their vaginas are grieving.
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Or if they had a C-section, their bodies are grieving because there was pain and there
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was sensitivity and there's angst as much as there is joy.
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And that's not for every single woman, but I would say a fair amount.
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I don't have percentages.
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Certainly with menopause, thankfully the menopause conversation is out there far more.
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But again, we need to have an embodied curiosity about all the different ways our bodies are
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changing over time.
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And because of the environment and because of the relationships that we have, you know,
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whether they're cisgendered or not, whatever they are and whatever you have allowed yourself
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to engage in or with sexually, that's to have an embodied curiosity about how your body
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and your sexual, sensual self feels is a conversation that the bitch needs to have.
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Because it's part of identity.
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Yes. I want to swing that back around to something you said earlier, which is this self-loathing.
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You know, there's just so many elements or times or moments or stages of life or changes
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of body or changes of circumstance where that self-loathing creeps in in full strength.
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And I am just imagining that self-loathing as almost like a persona meeting the Bitch.
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Oh, I would love to hear them have a conversation because what would the Bitch say to self-loathing?
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Right. She would have a lot to say, I think.
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And I think she was, you know, and I don't necessarily think that it would be, you know,
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our traditional concepts of the Bitch that she would just kind of lay into self-loathing
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and tell it to go fly a kite.
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I think that, you know, this feminine, powerful, fierce sense of the Bitch that we're talking
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about in this year of the bitch, if she had a conversation with self-loathing, I think
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it would be like almost like a sassy aunt who, you know, sees like her niece crying over
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some boy or something that didn't go right.
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And it's more of a pick yourself back up girl because we got a lot that we want to get
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done and I know you got it.
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I know that you got it.
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So let's try to change this around.
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That's right.
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That's right.
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And to add to that, the sassy Bitch might say, come on girl, let's get liberated.
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Let's not stay in this self-loathing so that we can then get to self-love, which is really,
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really hard.
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That self-love is so hard.
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That conversation you both just had, it's something we have not unveiled.
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However, we have broken Bitch down into four different identities, four different characters.
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So it's not, it's not when women are confronted with this word Bitch, it is one demon that they
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see.
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We're trying to unveil that it's not just one demon character.
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It is very, very different levels of this word can be identified as.
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And some of it can be extremely encouraging and loving.
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We never think of Bitches as loving.
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Now.
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It is and it can be.
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That's what we're trying to bring to the forefront.
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It sounds like an oxymoron, the loving Bitch, right?
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But in a way, it is.
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It's like the loving Bitch is the one that says, stop being fused to the negativity.
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You're so much more than that.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Bitch says, come on, let's get liberated.
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And in a way that's like, and we're not backing down from that, we are going to go.
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We're going.
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Oh, yeah.
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And she's got to have that hand movement, you know, let's go baby.
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The bottom line is this individual, this version of Bitch survives in every single person.
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And women, especially because they are shamed with that word so much that they avoid it.
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They have cast it out of their life.
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They don't want anything to do with it.
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That means a part of yourself, a part of you, the strongest part of yourself, you've cast
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aside, which is the biggest shame for us of all is that you're doing this to yourself
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because someone has defined a word for you instead of you defining it for yourself.
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I like that.
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Can I use that?
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You can use that.
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We've used yours.
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You can use yours.
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It's a little fair exchange.
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But to me, that is the change, Christopher, right?
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That's the change that we're talking about is going from what we believe the word is or
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the immediate groomed response that we get when we hear it and not throwing the baby out
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with the bathwater.
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You know, if anything, there's, I want to say a lot in that bathwater, but that's probably
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not the right analogy.
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That's interesting.
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Yeah.
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The thing is, is that it's important to know that the bathwater is there and to see the
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trajectory of where we've been.
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So as we're growing, as we're nurturing that identity, okay, we're understanding how we
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betray ourselves first, that we can begin to see that the complexity of Bitch is actually
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allowing us to foster a greater intimacy with our own identity and self.
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You know what I find fascinating about your work and how it ties to ours is that in grief,
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that you call grief a hero and we see bitch as a hero as well.
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There it is.
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The action is powerful.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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Yes.
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It's funny.
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I just was just writing about that about, about, you know, how grief is a hero and that we
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don't think about it as such, but I think of a hero as a teacher, right?
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And so grief is one of our greatest teachers.
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Invited in and to partner with it rather than pushing it away, which just makes it get louder.
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And the more we want to ignore it, the louder it gets.
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And perhaps the louder that our voices become internally and the more we push them down,
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we then have the tentacles of the diagnoses, anxiety, depression, OCD, which is, you know,
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more in the brain, but still there can be OCD as a complement to, oh, I've got to push
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my voice down, erratic behavior, out of control of sexual behavior.
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Just keep the voice down.
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Keep the voice down.
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And if we can bring it up, if we can bring up the voice, we're then acknowledging the grief
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of having had to annihilate the voice.
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I call it the guillotine effect.
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Our heads get cut off.
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We're walking around with our head.
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Our bodies are cut off from our feelings and we're just completely disconnected and the
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goal is to become in sync.
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Love that analogy because I think that's what we do to human beings is we always
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want you from the head up.
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Okay, we don't want you feeling anything.
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Okay, which one is thinking the way that we want you to think?
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That's exactly right.
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Either head behind the body can, you know, do what it is.
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You can do what it wants, but it is so true.
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And the greatest example that I can give is a very public figure, Simone Biles at the
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Japan Olympics and she had something called the twisties.
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Now the twisties within their world, it's a word.
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It's an idea theory that's in their world where you really can't find the right place to
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land.
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And she was this star of an athlete, amazing athlete could not find her place to land.
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But what no one was talking about was she was getting all these accolades and accolades.
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But what had preceded that were she was very much engaged in the trials against the man
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who had abused her for multiple times.
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And they still had an expectation that her performance should be stellar and no one was talking about
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it.
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Want to talk about a silenced voice?
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Want to talk about like really like it was like suppress, suppress, suppress, it's got
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to come out somewhere.
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And that's where there was the twisties.
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Her body and mind were not in sync.
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Now her Bitch is out and I love listening to her hearing her speak and she's quite the
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advocate and that's her bitch and I love it.
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And thank you Simone Biles for that.
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I was going to say you know she took that time to reflect on what she needed.
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She took a break from the sports she loved and she honed in on what she wanted and who
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she is and how she wanted to move forward.
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So I applaud her in a world where you know it's been it's been an uphill battle for athletes
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to come out about abuse and you know the bravery of so many athletes to come forward to make
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that change and and to call to account.
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People who are in powerful positions that can either advance you forward or not.
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It's huge.
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I think her story is just such a powerful story.
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I take my hat off to her 10 billion times.
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That's right.
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And she has opened the doors for the women of our time in this moment in time to have voices.
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We don't need to bring up any names but to have voices and to tap into their bitch of
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freedom and of right of the right of being able to have a voice around something that has
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been secreted away.
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Edie, this has been I don't even know I can find the right word to express our gratitude
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for you.
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What do you believe and how you express it?
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It really has shaped.
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I've said this before.
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It has shaped Heather and I in a direction that we are going in and it was just one comment
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that started this cavalcade of momentum around this word and what it can mean to women in
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general no matter where you are, who you are, what culture and what doesn't matter your
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situation.
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But is to focus on a part of yourself that the world tells you is of no value.
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And if we can change that mindset, if we can allow even one woman to look in the mirror
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and see herself differently and pull out from herself that strength, this is amazing.
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This is amazing.
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You made me tear up.
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I, whatever I can do and I'm saying this to your audience to support you in this journey,
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I am 100% on board.
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I thank you for your work and for getting these messages out to the very people who need
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to know that their bitch is allowed and welcome at any time.
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Wonderful.
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I'd love to end kind of where we started in that, you know, the quote of let's just say
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inviting a world where women hear this sentence and think of it differently that, you know,
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we have a lot to gain from being better Bitches.
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So to our listeners, you know, if that stirs something in you, we hope that it does because
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it is, you know, it's a controversial word that we are unpacking and reimagining and evolving.
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So we would love to hear from you on how you are connecting with this work.
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00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:26,720
But Edie, thank you so much for everything you bring to the table.
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It really is.
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It's like a North Star for a lot of what Christopher and I are working on.
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So we really appreciate it.
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Thank you.
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I so appreciate your work and being here and just keep the conversation going and be the
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best Bitch you can be.
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And if we can make a future date with you when your book comes out that we are able to share
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that with you and share that with our audience, we're definitely want to be top of that
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list when you get that completed.
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Thank you so much.
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And just right now, everyone, the working title is Invisible No More:
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Liberate the Self from Traumatic Wounds and Dare to Live.
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Dare to be a Bitch.
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Thank you so much, Edy.
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Thank you so much.
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And this is all coming to you from the Virgin Beauty and the best Bitch being created
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in the BITCH year 2026.
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And that Bitch could be you.
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Come on back.
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Find us like us.
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00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,200
Share us.
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00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,200
Come on back.
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00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:49,000
Come a partner in the VBB community,
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00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,760
we invite you to find us at virginbeautybitch.com.
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00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:53,760
Like us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn.
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00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,320
And share us with people who are defiantly different like you.
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00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,240
Until next time, thanks for listening.
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[Music]
