VBB 358 Womanhood 2025: One Step Forward; One Slap Back!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Podcast, inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather. Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:15]:

Typical pre-Christmas lists are all about things we want, but we're going to turn that upside down. We're going to ask instead, what were the main concerns of women in 2025? So between Heather and me, only one of us has the DNA-qualified pieces to answer that question. So me, I cheated. I asked AI, and it responded with a list. So, Heather, what would you suspect is on that list of top concerns women worldwide had in 2025? Hint, hint. There are six concerns on this list.

Heather [00:01:01]:

Wow. Gosh. I mean, I do have some of the, the. The DNA and the bits. So I'm gonna, you know, tap into those bits to try to tell me the answers. Right, exactly. Hold on a second. Need a private moment. Just kidding. I mean, clearly, there's a lot on women's minds for 2025. And, you know, I think that we, some years we feel like the toothpaste is out of the tube, we're getting somewhere further with gender equity, that we're making progress, that the arc is bending, and that things are slowly, very slowly, but getting better. But 2025, I feel, didn't feel slow. It felt sharp, it felt contradictory. It felt like one step forward and then one slap back. And this year, you know, there were a lot of global summits, if we're taking our zoom lens out that big, that focused on tech platforms where women were celebrated in sports, but also where women were targeted online and still expected to be grateful for crumbs labeled as inclusion. So, you know, when I'm thinking about some of the top concerns for women in 2025, I think about politics, technology, culture, labor, sports, and our bodies.

Heather [00:02:26]:

And to go into those topics a little bit further, I, you know, would look forward to having a deeper conversation on each one of those with you today, Christopher. But kind of to break it down in those categories, for me personally, I think it's no surprise to our listeners or anyone else that we. I believe it's something like if we go at the rate that we're going at right now, it will be another 400 years before we get gender equity and the highest levels of political leadership, that is a very slow to move reality. And what Christopher and I have talked about is, you know, that the women that are into those levels of positions and leadership are making huge strides. Like I think about the woman president in Mexico who recently was groped when she was outside at a public event, and she's pressing charges on that individual and calling out the sexism that exists there. And, you know, I think it is moments like that where more and more women see themselves reflected in leadership and see themselves as deserving of the respect that comes with any human body. I mean, clearly in that moment, that man did not respect her, but she stood her ground on what she needed to do in order to say that's completely inappropriate. Inappropriate and won't be tolerated.

Heather [00:03:45]:

So again, I, you know, to go back to how I framed this originally was that we kind of get these crumbs and, and, and label them as progress. But I don't want it to just be that as crumbs, because each time there is a massive movement where a woman assumes a position that was never, quote, unquote, meant for her in previous eras or previous regimes, it does make huge impacts, huge impacts. And I don't think that those impacts can ever be called crumbs. So that's one for the kind of global politics lens. Technology is huge. I mean, Christopher and I went through an episode on AI, and AI Girlfriends, and AI robotic women. I just, you know, we are on the precipice, or already into a very, very drastically different world when it comes to relationships that people are having with no longer human women, but women, women's bodies that they can program. One element that I enjoyed about our conversation on that, Christopher, was, you know, just as human women have rebelled against the patriarchy, I wonder if we will see a day similar to some of the movies that are coming out now, where robot women start to do the same when it comes to culture.

Heather [00:05:16]:

You know, for me, that's, you know, that's a mixture of how we're changing relationships within our, our intimate partner relationships, expectations of, of different genders. And I think, again, there's that push forward where women, you know, have the economic means in certain areas to make more decisions in and outside of the public and private spheres. But at the same time, we see a major pushback with some of these manosphere groups where men are feeling like they're being left behind and organizing sometimes in very aggressive or demeaning, demeaning ways. So that's, I think, a huge, a huge incline for what we have to be thinking about in the years ahead. You know, women in sports. I think we saw a phenomenal year for women in sports. That's something that really gives me a lot of hope. Christopher and I have done several podcasts this year on particularly basketball. But there's all across the board record numbers of women, women's sports getting more and more viewership.

Heather [00:06:22]:

And you know, we know that they're not getting paid what they deserve. So that's a continued piece of the puzzle. But wow, to see so much of that’s taking off. That's very exciting because it seems to be a deeply ingrained belief that, you know, women in sports were never going to make it to the big times and have the kind of interest in viewership. And that's being, that's being disproven in a pretty major way. So I'll leave it there for now. We'll see how I did against Christopher's check-in, but I would love to hear what the AI gave us introspection on.

Christopher [00:07:09]:

Well, I think you should probably work for the UN because a lot of the things on your list isn't on AI's list. So I think you're more qualified than AI to work with the UN.

Heather [00:07:24]:

Anytime I can, you know, combat AI knowing it all.

Christopher [00:07:29]:

But it had reproductive rights, workplace equity, violence and safety, political representation, health and well-being, affordability of health care, and climate justice. This list is obviously just narrowed down. I'm sure the list goes on for infinitum. But I asked AI, and I responded to AI with this. I get the sense that all of these concerns would be on your list 10 or 20 years ago. Am I mistaken? And it replied, You are 'partially' mistaken. While the fundamental issues of gender inequality is persistent, the nature and urgency of the threats have evolved significantly over the past 10 to 20 years, which is what you are talking about. It's the evolution of the backlash to the progress women have made.

Heather [00:08:29]:

Yeah. What an interesting response that it's fed out, you know, partially right, but kind of refocusing on even though progress has been made exactly as you've said, the backlash from people not wanting to see that happen and you know, feeling that they're losing power and privilege and what extent they'll go to in order to reestablish it, whether surface level or much, much deeper, is certainly top of mind for me. And I think the other piece of that is, you know, even when women are in these positions, there's still the question of does representation equal redistribution of power. And I don't think that that's a given. It's something that women not only need to be a seat at the table, but making the agenda. And again, I do think we have some glimmering hope when it comes to that, but a long, long way to go globally.

Christopher [00:09:30]:

I've always struggled with the word equality and what it actually means. I get the sense that equality for a lot of individuals means that if you have X, Y, and Z, then I must have X, Y, and Z, not access to X, Y, and Z, but X, Y, and Z. I'm not sure if that is what equality is. I think that people bring different things to the table, and people respond to different inputs and rewards or acknowledgments. And I don't know that we take that into the equation. When we talk about the overall, the big picture of equality, I think we narrow it down to if you have X, Y, and Z, then they must have X, Y, and Z exactly the same. Am I off base on that?

Heather [00:10:33]:

No, I think that's really an important point because to me, sometimes having X, Y, and Z is just the optics rather than true access. So to just say that you've got the same level of opportunity to get into a room, which could be debated, that once you're in the room, that should be enough that you have access to making your own monetary decisions, et cetera. It still doesn't equate to me as equality. And I think that some people have gone down the path of using equity rather than equality, just because equality says we should all have the same. Where equity looks at. How do we understand people's intersectionality and meet them there to provide true, like a true leveling of the field.

Christopher [00:11:28]:

I think equity is so nuanced, it's difficult to look at it and have everyone on the same page of how they decipher that word. I think equality becomes something that people can see, and they can do the math on it. So I think that's why that word is used more than the other. However, again, it becomes equal to, as opposed to, this is what I bring, this is what I need to make me satisfied.

Heather [00:12:09]:

Yeah. And just on that, I feel like, you know, if politics is where women are pushing their way in to have a platform to speak that is deserved, and in other forms of leadership, whether that's in your community, in your career, that the tech world is sometimes where women are being punished for being heard. And I'm talking about online harassment, online threats, etc, but not only am I talking about that, I'm talking about crackdowns on women's reproductive health issues that women are very fearful about, especially in the United States, but elsewhere too, suppression of certain content on social media platforms that are of interest to women. Of course, we've got the algorithm, algorithmic biases that we're only hearing the things that we want to hear, and sometimes the suppression of other algorithms is very much the world that we're living in. And not only the online harassment targeted at individual women, but particularly women in leadership positions, but also journalists and activists, where there isn't a ton of teeth to be able to, you know, hold people to account that are using aliases online to berate these women who are putting their names and their lives out into the public eye. So I think that going into leadership, there is always an element that people are paying more attention to what you're saying and doing. But for women, and I would argue gender diverse people, it's a continued battle. And I would say that the battle is getting harder and harder.

Christopher [00:13:56]:

This attack on leaders and leadership has it not been historically how the populace responds to a leader that they don't necessarily agree with? I think in the case of women, it becomes a gendered disrespect. But we've shot presidents in the past, we've assassinated leaders we don't agree with that were men. So it's, I think it's something that is baked into that dichotomy of leader, followers, and those who disagree, that person will always be a target. So I think when you add the gender blend to that, it can get back to this basic, he, she, animosity, and frankly disgusting kind of display publicly. But I think that relationship has always been there. Right now, women are in those leadership roles, and it looks different, but it's the same. It's, I don't disagree with you, I'm going to disrespect you. I'm going to do everything I can to get you out of the position you're in.

Heather [00:15:17]:

Yeah, that's very true. I mean, you either agree with the type of leadership that this person espouses or, you know, you can be vehemently against it. But I think that where the online is particularly insidious is that, you know, back in the days before social media, you'd have to own your identity, being attached to disregard or distaste or, you know, all the way to aggression towards leaders. You had to wear that as your own identity. But in today's world, you don't need to own that criticism, you don't need to own that exalt, depending on how you feel about it. And I think that that's allowed people to go to new and different levels of how they show up online and the ways that they try to berate Women in particular.

Christopher [00:16:11]:

Yes, there's. What's the consequence? There's no consequence to it whatsoever. That's. But I mean, who's responsible for giving that to a coward? Now the coward has a platform, and they can expose what it is they feel is, you know, deeply damaging as it can be, without any consequences. Who's responsible for that?

Heather [00:16:36]:

Yes, it's so true. And I think it is such a tricky thing to try to legislate. But I, I know that there are some mechanisms of course, to be able to track, like the police can go back and find certain, like, which addresses it's coming from in various computers. So there are ways to be able to find the coward if it gets to a point that's very scary. But sometimes it's, it's too, too little too late. I do want to. Just because we had highlighted it around women's bodies and autonomy with conditions. I want to talk about one of the oldest battlegrounds of all time, which is women's physical bodies.

Heather [00:17:17]:

And globally, you know, we've got reproductive rights in instability, health care access is conditional on politics, and there's a surveillance returning in modern forms. You know, we've kind of seen the beginnings, and I guess a next phase of what that looks like in the United States, and we know that that's the reality in other places worldwide. But in 2025, I think it reminded us that bodily autonomy is never one. It's managed, negotiated, and consistently contested. And you know, I think that I've had so many conversations this year with women, men, non-binary people, gender diverse persons, and especially people who are in previous rounds of women's movements. There's a lot of. I thought that we were done with this fight. I thought we had achieved this fight, at least for North America.

Heather [00:18:18]:

And you know, I was very disheartened by that in the onset, you know, but that is, just now I see it more as a reinvigoration that these elements that we fought so hard to achieve are, are never stable. And we have to continue to keep an eye on the agendas that are trying to remove these rights.

Christopher [00:18:40]:

Two steps forward, always four steps back. That if you have opposition in power to what it is you want, yes, you can, you can storm the barricades, you can gain ground, but you can bet they will be reinforced and you'll be pushed back to a position you don't want to be in anymore. And unfortunately, this fight about women's autonomy of their bodies hurts beyond anything else. I can call you names, I can do a lot of things to you, but if I take away your autonomy over your own body, I don't know how I can get any more basic at hurting you than that. And to have a government do that to you, that is the saddest part of all, is that a government can manipulate powers that be. In order to make that happen to women everywhere.

Heather [00:19:43]:

You know, the way that you frame it, it's just, it really hits home for me. It really hits my heart because that's it is one of the oldest fights of all time for women to have full control over their physical body and their reproductive freedom, and not only reproductive freedom, when I'm talking about bodily autonomy, but just being able to move through the world without needing a man's permission to be in any room in any space like that is not the reality for so many women worldwide. So to see elements of this stripped away, it's. It is to the core, infuriating, and definitely top of mind for me, reflecting on 2025 and into 2026. But I don't want it all to be grim.

Christopher [00:20:40]:

Well, you know what the saddest part of that is? Is that it's not personal, it's political. That's the saddest part. It’s that the personal is not even considered for the political gain that it makes. That's the saddest part to me.

Heather [00:20:58]:

And I think there was that quote, and forgive me, I'm forgetting who said it, I have someone in mind, but you know that the personal is political because I think that helps to invigorate women to know that their personal experience is political. And there is a political motive around decisions that are personally sensitive to us. And to me, that quote is extremely empowering because it helps to showcase that our individual experiences that are personal, that they matter, they matter within a greater scheme of intersecting systems that want to keep us in a certain corner, in a certain place. So when we value our personal to the extent that we should, I think it's empowering to be able to know that an individual experience is tied to so many other experiences.

Christopher [00:21:51]:

I love that because coming up in, you know, in a little while here, Heather and I will be talking full on about a project we've been working on for the last half a year or so, probably even more. But it is about the personal. It is about knowing yourself, having the kind of deep respect for yourself that you would make changes to how you interact in the world as how the world knows you and must respect you. So it all ties together. If you're able to contain that amazing package that each individual is and demand respect for that individual package that you are, that's what changes the world. That is where everything changes. So stay tuned. It's a topic that's going to be controversial to a lot because of a word that we use, but it is a key to making this switch and making a difference inevitably in the world we live in.

Christopher [00:23:12]:

And that's that. Yes, that is my biased opinion. However, I believe it to my core to be a truth. So Heather and I will be talking more about that in the next coming weeks. So stay tuned for that.

Heather [00:23:30]:

Yeah, I'm so glad that you talked about that. I really do think that is how we shift everything is when a person sees their own life as that important to shift where the future will go. And for many, you know, different eras, that hasn't been what women have been told about their lives. So we are so excited to be able to share what we've been conjuring up with you in 2026. You know, I don't want to end this conversation without a little bit of some good things that happened because I think there were some tremendous successes. And I'm going to, I want to go into the sports world because women's sports have gained unprecedented visibility. Pay equity conversations became unavoidable because the players made it so.

Heather [00:24:26]:

And cultural shifts where women's excellence could not be ignored. I mean, this is one arena of so many other arenas of life. But, you know, I remember growing up that this was never a viable option for me to pursue, and to see young girls seeing themselves like Caitlin Clark, or Angel Reese, you know, it's. It is a game-changer for more avenues to be career, career options. And when I think about the kind of mental rhetoric that I used to hear that, you know, women's sports will never get to that level because men are the ones with the muscle and the bravado and the testosterone, and that's what makes sports exciting to watch, you know. Wow. Has that. Has that mentality ever changed? And it has been something very cool to see in my lifetime.

Christopher [00:25:25]:

I just heard yesterday that the games, the WNBA games in Toronto for the new team have sold out. Did I hear that right?

Heather [00:25:36]:

Yes, that's right. Toronto's very excited.

Christopher [00:25:39]:

Freaking unbelievable.

Heather [00:25:40]:

I haven't even started yet. I've got my merchandise. I got my Toronto Tempo jersey. I'm ready to go.

Christopher [00:25:50]:

That is amazing. I mean, on that note, if you want to take the temperature of what's going on. Keep an eye on the labor negotiations between the WNBA and its boards of power, because that's going on right now, and WNBA women are not women you want to mess with.

Heather [00:26:13]:

No, they are not. I think this is why it matters so much is because it's what we were just chatting about, Christopher. It exposes the lie that women are less valuable when women perform at the highest level, excuses, collapse, and equity becomes economic, not ideological. So I think that one of the most dangerous things in a patriarchal system is that women can be undeniably excellent.

Christopher [00:26:40]:

First, though, comes the belief that this is what I am. That has to go first. And that's where we focus our attention in the coming weeks.

Heather [00:26:52]:

And I love that you did mention the relationship between the players and the WNBA and the negotiations that they've been underway because that speaks towards labor and labor politics and what it means for their association to be fighting on their behalf. And some of the campaign tactics that they've used. Like, there was the one, I think it was their all-stars game that they came out with Pay Us. It was something about pay us fairly. Anyway, it was very bold, and that got so much media attention. I thought it was so well played. Pun intended.

Christopher [00:27:33]:

Like I said, you don't mess with those women because, as a group, they are at the leading edge of social change. During COVID, they were front and center on what is actually important to society. And in these labor negotiations, they're standing up for themselves, and they are creative. However, they're also very attuned to what it is they want and very focused on getting it because they have now they have, they have the hammer. So, yeah, keep an eye on that. It'll give you an idea of. Because now there are other sports, other women's sports that are definitely keeping an eye on what's going on with the WNBA.

Heather [00:28:29]:

And I think, you know what I hear a lot in my line of work is how relevant the labor movement is in today's world. And when I see the gains that the labor movement has got for women and gender equity over so many years, and how there's still a force in today's world that are battling many fronts to see greater gender equity. It's exciting to see what their association has done to support those players and to be fighting for a better deal for those well-deserved workers.

Christopher [00:29:05]:

So now that we have gone through the dark side of 2025, you can get, you can get back to wishing for the gifts you want for Christmas.

Heather [00:29:16]:

That's right. Now it's back to the wish list.

Christopher [00:29:19]:

Right? Right. We've taken all that dark stuff out of the way. Now you're free to, free to go for what you want moving forward.

Heather [00:29:28]:

I feel like, in a summary, you know, I do think that 2025 had progress, and it also had a lot of resistance to that progress. But I feel that power doesn't disappear; it adapts. And that the equity we talked about requires some conflict, not consensus. So, you know, as always, Christopher, I love these conversations to be able to reflect with you. And thanks for bringing this question to the table about what matters for women in today's world.

Christopher [00:30:04]:

So, next time, I think we'll talk about what it is impressed us in 2025. Maybe some of the guests we've had on or just things that fell in our lap in 2025. But until then, you've been listening to.

Heather [00:30:24]:

The Virgin,

Christopher

The Beauty,

Heather

And the Bitch.

Christopher [00:30:27]:

Oh, she's coming.

Heather [00:30:29]:

She's coming.

Christopher [00:30:31]:

Find us. Like us. Share us. Bring your bad self back.  To become a partner in the VBB community. We invite you to find us@virginbeautybitch.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are defiantly different like you.

Until next time, thanks for listening.