VBB 348 Dr. Xenia Barnes: Trauma Or Triumph?

Intro [00:00:0]:

Virgin Beauty Podcast, inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather. Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher  [00:00:010]:

Aside from the privilege of having you listen to us in our conversation, this. There is one very selfish reason why Heather and I enjoy doing this podcast, and it's that we love to learn. Can you imagine what you might learn in a conversation with a social behavioral scientist? Well, we're going to find out as we welcome social behavior scientist and organizational healing community resilience expert Reverend Dr. Xenia Barnes to Virgin Beauty Bitch.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:00:57]:

Thank you for having me. And claps and snaps and everything to you because you got my name correct. Most people have a challenging time, so kudos to you.

Christopher [00:01:08]:

Well, thank you for prepping me beforehand. Now, I believe where our worlds, our world and yours connect is we talk to women all the time about challenges they face. Often, it's difficult for them to see the complex social patterns that influence their behavior. And often without that key information, they feel stuck, frustrated, or even defeated. I'm curious if you see a familiarity in your work.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:01:38]:

I see that so often. And a lot of the women I coach, so I'm actually a professional development coach as well as a life coach. And so what I do is when I coach these women, most women are women who are either starting over or have experienced some type of life challenges, whether it be disability or whether it be just a traumatic experience. And they're now going back into the workforce, and they're navigating through that challenge or those waters. And what I commonly see as people, women are often just trying to figure themselves out and constantly being met with being second-guessed. And so when I think about that, to your point, there is always this sense of redefinding themselves and trying to understand, like, who am I now that this traumatic event or experience has happened to me. And that's what's often a challenge, that challenge of who am I, versus who someone wants me to be.

Christopher [00:02:42]:

That is something we face and confront a lot.

Heather [00:02:46]:

Well, I, you know, your brand is literally about being resilient, determined, bold. So, can you take us back to how those three words help shape your journey and then become the core of how you are now helping others?

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:03:04]:

Absolutely. So I've always been blessed with the ability to advocate for others as well as myself. I guess if you ask the younger version of me or someone who knew me when I was younger, they would say like, oh, she snappy, or she, she's really aggressive. But it wasn't that. It was just, I’m, I always, there was always something about standing up for myself. I guess that was something that my parents ingrained in me. And then standing up for others who are always feel like their voices are being muted.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:03:36]:

And so as I got older and like I was saying to your co host with wisdom and life experience, I just kind of honed more on into that, like, what does this really look like to be be yourself, be present in your body, in your mind and but still be authentic to yourself, no matter what anybody else is trying to portray on you. And then in 2021, well, first in 2017, my nephew was murdered. And then I had to learn how to navigate grief and still show up at work. And that was not something easy to do. And then as soon as I found, or felt like I was getting my bearings. Then in 2021, I was diagnosed with a terminal lung disease called pulmonary fibrosis. And so that's where both of my lungs are hardening, and I need a double lung transplant. And so being forced out of my role that I spent so many years building up, like I feel like I was in the height of my career, and all those things. And then for that to be stripped away from me, I had to figure out what life would then look like.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:04:40]:

And so that's when the resilience piece really kicked into high drive because I figured I can't be the only person who something like this had happened to. But I also recognized like, there weren't that many tools out there to help me navigate through that. So I decided to use my voice and use my situation to be a platform so that I can support other women who may have been experiencing something similar. And that's what shaped the core, the core pillars of my organization and my business, about falling in love with yourself again so that you can be the most resilient and you can show up being authentically you, unapologetically about putting one step in front of the other, but also feeling comfortable with being vulnerable and knowing that life will throw challenges at you. It's all about the way you view your situation and the way you begin to shift and pick back up to move forward.

Christopher [00:05:44]:

What do you think forged that in you? I mean, so many people get, you know, I don't want to be flip about it, but they get a hangnail and it's like the woe is me. And they, they don't want to get out of bed or face the day. Like you have gone through, you've gone through a brick wall that life has put in front of you. What do you think is in you? What. Where did that come from?

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:06:11]:

I would definitely say it may sound easier than it was. It would, like, do not get me wrong, this was not something like, I woke up and I was like, yes, I could do this. I could connect. There were many dark days, dog, like really, really dark nights. There was some real, real deep depression that went into this. But I, what really kicked me into gear was, so I have a son.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:06:38]:

My son's 25. He's 25 now. But in the process and going through this, I started looking at him, and I was saying to myself, what am I showing him if I just give up? What am I showing him? Like, I had to make a choice. I had to make a choice whether I was going to let this sickness take hold of my life completely and just give into this sentence of you may not make it. Or if I was going to use my education, my background, and everything, and my support system to pick myself up and show my son something different. And so I wanted to make sure that the legacy that would be left behind and what he can see is to say, my mother lived. My mother, you know, she fought every battle facing head-on, and she utilized the resources and the tools that were around her to do that. So that's really what kicked me into drive, to just wanting to make sure that he seen, or he sees in me that no matter how high or how deep the trenches are, I'm always willing to, to do my best to fight for it. Because I wanted to make sure that he doesn't get hit with road maps and just feel like, oh, I'm just going to give up because, because this thing is hard.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:07:45]:

You have so many people right now, like you said, that one thing happened, and they just completely give up. But if you change the way you think and you change the way, and you begin to get control over your emotions and your feelings, then you can change your behavior. And for me, I'm very heavy on my faith, so I have to believe that there's a higher power, greater than me, that has some type of plan. I might not understand the vision, but I got the mission. And so I just keep going with my mission.

Heather [00:08:27]:

Well, I mean, when I look at that framework and, and your life story as you've, as you, as you've just laid out for us and not letting it hold you down, you know, but also being real about the struggles, right, the depression and getting yourself out of where your mind was or where your life was and Saying there's still a lot of life left for me, for other people. I'm going to use this to. To make sure that I can also help others. You know, I love that, you know, you've got the resilience bouncing back from life's challenges, determined to stay focused despite the barriers. And you said being bold, unapologetically owning your truth. What does that feel like for you? Like, if you're like one of our listeners, can you unpack the unapologetic piece for us?

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:09:18]:

Absolutely. So listening out there, for those of you who are listening, sometimes it's going to feel rough. Sometimes your edges are gonna feel rough to other people. And I want you to understand that that is okay. You don't always have to be somebody's cup of tea or somebody's cup of whiskey. Just be who you are. Because no one can live your trauma or your story like you, and no one can tell it like you. So the greater power is in reclaiming your power and telling your story yourself.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:09:52]:

There's always someone out there who's going to disagree. There's always someone out there who's going to judge. But when you get comfortable with self. When you get comfortable with your way of thinking, you get comfortable with your way of being, and you get comfortable with walking into rooms saying, you know what? Hello, this is me. This is who I am. You can like me or you cannot, but you are in control of your own emotions, and no one else can trigger you. So that you act where you're uncomfortable with who you are, then that's what that looks like.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:10:25]:

That's what it looks like. Being unapologetically yourself, because you are now comfortable with who you are and the person that you are becoming.

Heather [00:10:34]:

Do you have a practice, like a tool or an exercise that you help your clients with when it comes to, you know, stepping into your boldness that you wouldn't mind sharing with our audience?

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:10:46]:

Absolutely. I'm glad you asked that. So one tool or two tools? I'll give you one. It’s called brain dumping. And this is something that I use all the time. I do it twice a day. I do it in the morning, sometimes.  If I have five minutes, I make sure I get in five minutes. If I have longer, I do longer. And there's no structure. It's just you writing down whatever is in your mind so that you can process it at a later time. If you're like me, sometimes you wake up and your mind is on overdrive, and you’re still thinking of things that happened yesterday or things that you have to get to, but when you dump it out, you can put it to the side and come back to it later. And when you do that, you start to recognize patterns that are within yourself. That helps you be able to shift your way of thinking and your way of navigating life. That's one.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:11:46]:

Another thing I do is sometimes I go and I stand in the mirror and I just talk to me like, hey girl, this is what you're feeling. This is how you did. Like this is why. Or you know what, girl, I miss you. I miss you. You used to do these things, like what's going on? And I talk to myself through the mirror like I'm having a real conversation with a long-time friend. But that allows me to get out and articulate what I'm feeling. Sometimes you may not have the words right away, but when you're in conversation with someone, things, something starts to happen to you that you say, you know, oh my goodness, you know what? I didn't even think about that. So sometimes you just need to talk to yourself.

Heather [00:12:20]:

I love both of those. I am going to bring those in. Seriously. Sometimes we need a, a, a good talking to and other times it's like we need to talk to each other ourselves. I mean like that best friend, that best friend that's like, you know, I got you, I got you.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:12:36]:

And sometimes I have rough conversations with myself. Like sometimes I, sometimes I have to curse myself.

Heather [00:12:43]:

Wasn't cool.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:12:45]:

What's up? Like, girl, girl, what is, what was you thinking? What is going on with you? You know, sometimes I got to be a real nasty best friend to myself. That pulls me in and say get it together, you know, so sometimes you have to do that, and there's no judgment and there's no shame. And sometimes when you're surrounded by people who are often the judgy people, you need to just step away by yourself and have that conversation with yourself. So now it's like it's not about judgment, it's about accountability. And right now, and in this moment, I'm holding you accountable. Even though you're talking to yourself as you still saying, I'm holding you accountable because you know what? You have options, you have choices. And if somebody, if no one else is going to tell you, you have to be able to tell yourself sometimes.

Christopher [00:13:33]:

How often do you find women, people with a navigation system that they identify what it is they actually want, how they actually want to show up in the world, and then have the fortitude to go through the exercises of actually living that? Is that rare, or is it common that people have all those tools already instilled in them?

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:14:02]:

So that's a great question. The ugly truth about that is we all have it. We just don't tap into it. And that's because we've been conditioned, as most women have been conditioned, to just pivot or just push through. And they haven't been. They haven't utilized the practice or the discernment of stopping and taking time to navigate using the tools that they already have. A lot of times we're going, especially right now, we're facing on social media, and we’re just trying to do what the next person is doing. This person said, do that.  All right, I'm gonna try this. And we don't give things, we don't give strategies enough time to actually work.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:14:37]:

And so in my practice and in my experience, it's often a lot of the women do have that. It's just that they have been surrounded by themselves or surrounding themselves or either been surrounded by other individuals who have been pointing the finger or trying to give them cookie-cutter strategies and examples. And if everyone knows cookie-cutter strategies, they just don't work because everyone's situation is different. And so when I'm working with women, a lot of times I have them do some self-inventory. And it's like, I want to know from you, what's your love language? I want to know from you how you process things, like how do you receive information? And once you start to open them up to that, and I'm doing that work, that's when those things start to kick in, and that's when they start to understand themselves better because they haven't done that work in so long. And when you haven't done that work, you don't know how to show up. You don't know how to show up and just be yourself because you spent so many years trying to be what everyone else wanted you to be.

Christopher [00:15:51]:

I think you said a phrase there that is universal and resolves all right. It's knowing, you know, knowing yourself and doing the work. Doing the work. I think that's the most important point is that a lot of times we don't do the work, but we expect, you know, the cherry blossoms when we wake up.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:16:22]:

You want everything, you want everything, but you don't want to do work. That's like someone saying that's like someone saying, oh, I want a six pack, the summer is coming, I got a two-piece I want to wear. I'm going to the beach. I want to show, but you’re eating six burgers a day, like acting all day. And it's like, okay, but how are you gonna get there? Like, what's the reality of this thing happening if you don't do the work? What's the reality of your behavior changing if you're not doing anything to change your behavior? What's the reality of your circumstances changing if you're not doing anything to change your circumstances? That's like someone who's unhappy at their job, and they just come to work every day, and they're complaining, they're complaining, they haven't polished their resume, they haven't applied for any other positions where they work. And like, they're not doing anything, but yet they keep coming to work every day, talking about how bad they hate this job.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:17:14]:

If you want to do, if you see something different, you have to do something different. You can't just complain.

Christopher [00:17:21]:

Amen.

Heather [00:17:24]:

Yeah, I want to switch gears for a second because your work, I mean, when it comes to coaching, is so remarkable. But the, like, the other element of, you know, spaces that you create, I also find so needed, so needed in our world today. And, you know, I appreciate that. You know, you don't sugarcoat it. You dive into race, gender identity, resilience, and trauma, and you do it with an energy that's inviting but also realistic. So can you help us? Like, I think that, you know, something Christopher and I talk about a lot is, and I think is that talked about a lot in the world right now is these deep polarizations of people, people really not wanting to see each other, like in a common ground sort of way or really understand another person's trials to like, get to a better place in society. So, can you walk us through some of the work that you do in having those tough conversations? And you know, I think that the term safe space is problematic in certain ways, in that we do our best to create a safe space, but sometimes you need to feel uncomfortable to actually do the work and to see the bigger picture or to get a deeper understanding. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on those sorts of spaces that you create.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:18:53]:

Sure. I'm glad you asked that because that's actually how I start off my group settings and my workshops when I say a safe space. And so, before even doing the work, I say safe space. But a safe space for whom? Like, who is this a safe space for? Because my idea of a safe space may not be the same idea that you have as a safe space. So we have to come together, and we have to have some common ground, some rules, some expectations of what this safe space is going to look like, and the type of language that we're going to have. So it starts off with like, okay, so what are our expectations? Here are my expectations. What are your expectations? Where do we intersect here? Are there any type of rules or anything, or expectations we need to add to this list? So like, for me, I'm big on not saying call. Oh, I'm not calling you out, I'm calling you in.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:19:45]:

And whenever I use that terminology, it's allowing you to understand that this is not about judgment, this is about accountability. So I'm gonna call you in and I'm gonna say like, hey, this thing, this thing said, this thing happened. And how do we address this? Like, what does this look like to actually address this? I wanna make sure that we're being intentional with not only the language, but I want to make sure that there's an actual actionable step that happens. How do we resolve this? Because it doesn't make a difference if we can pour out all these ideas and we use all these big terms and names, but there's no action or real meaningful change behind it. And so when you say you're creating a safe space, that means when we leave this place, we're leaving this place with the intention to make some type of changes. Whether it is changes to our behavior or whether it's changes to the way we interact with one another. But we're not leaving this place being judgmental, and we're not bringing shame or pointing blame at individuals.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:20:47]:

We're going to talk about something. We're going to talk about this with the intention that something positive is going to come out of it. And also understanding that sometimes you have to sit in the uncomfortability of a situation so that you could come out on the other side. If everything is roses all the time, then nothing needs to change. That's just like saying, oh, your life is great. Like life is great. There's no racism, there's no, no, there's no sexism. There are none of these things that we're faced with every day because everything is great. And that's just untrue. So understanding that we're going to have to be uncomfortable in this safe space in order for us to get to an actual space where we are making change.

Heather [00:21:28]:

So good, so good. It's so important because when these conversations happen, how you've outlined creating that container where there is buy-in from everyone, because everyone created like contributed to what that was going to look like. It's so true.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:21:44]:

Right?

Heather [00:21:44]:

Because it is a safe space for whom? And often the safe space is to keep like the most powerfuland  comfortable. And that's not the point.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:21:54]:

Yeah. And they're saying, you say this safe space. I imagine walking into a room and someone's saying, oh, this is a group. And they say this is a safe space. But every time you have an opinion or you have a question about something, you're constantly being shut down. Well, who is this space safe for? And is this space about making whoever's holding the space more comfortable about their opinions and their thoughts, or is this space about us shifting the way everyone thinks for us to make a situation better? And that's what's the big part. And that's how a lot of people end up in spaces where they feel like this is not safe.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:22:34]:

And I don't want to come back because they feel like either their voice is being muted or they feel like their opinions are being dismissed, and then they shut down, and it's like, all right, I'm here for how much longer? When is this over? How much longer have I got to be here? Oh my goodness, this meeting could have been an email. That's when you start having those feelings because you feel like you're wasting your time, and no one wants to waste their time. Time is the one thing you can't get back. So I'm very intentional about how I spend my time, but also how I spend others time.

Christopher [00:23:04]:

So you work with individuals, you work with companies, businesses, you work with organizations, like you cover the gamut. Because what you're talking about here is at the crux of all of these institutions working properly. Right?

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:23:20]:

Absolutely, and so I do it, I do it in different ways. So, when I work with individuals now, when I work with individuals, a lot of individuals I work with are survivors of either domestic abuse, long-term illness, or gun violence. But then when I, and then I connect that with my support group. So once they get to a phase or a place where they're comfortable enough to be in the space and share with others, then I link them to my support group. And so I have that place. But I also train leadership, organizations, and leadership teams on how to navigate these spaces and create these spaces for their employees so that they can show up being the best version of themselves, but also be the most productive version of themselves. And so that's what sets my business apart from others.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:24:15]:

Because most people, when they do leadership training, they're just training based on the idea of what the leaders want or say they need. But my thing is I take leaders and organizations through a training themselves first, so that they can get to understand it's not only what you need. If you want your business to be successful, then that success has to start from the top. And your leadership is a title. Your leadership is a skill. Your leadership is not, like it's not a position. Like it's not.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:24:46]:

People tend to think that leadership, oh, leadership, that's the job. It's not only a job, it's a skill that you have been taught, and you had to learn, and you had to polish and craft. And so if you're going to be a good leader, a good leader has to also know how to be a good shepherd, which means you have to know how to lead and guide and just being by treating people nasty and not leading from a place of empathy or compassion, then you're not leading yet, you're dictating, you know, and once they get once, once they're able to understand that, they're able to understand, okay, this is how I get a return on my investment with staff because I'm nourishing their mental and emotional so that they are coming and they're, they're willing to, they're willing to work extra hours or willing to put in the, indeed the most productive. And that's what it's really about.

Heather [00:25:39]:

I. We love to ask our guests this question. You know, the three names or words in our name of this podcast usually have a very visceral response or a deeper meaning, sometimes a surface meeting. But I'm wondering if of the Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch, does one stand out to you? Or like a relationship that with one of those words or more than one that you would like to share with our guests.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:26:08]:

You trying to get me in trouble now?

Heather [00:26:14]:

We love all three. All three. We love.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:26:17]:

I love it. I love, I love all three. And I feel like you kind of have to go through all three to really get to understand who you are. And so when you think about, when you think about the virgin, I think about stripping yourself and going through this incubation phase of when you're getting to learn exactly who you are.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:26:55]:

And then that's when I pivot more over to what? Transition to the beauty. Because then the beauty in that is that hello to yourself all over again is that. It's that. It's those moments when you start to feel and find and find your voice again. When you’re starting to say like, this is who I am as a leader. This is who I am as a person, and fall in love all over again. And whatever that love language and whatever that day-to-day that brings you that joy and happiness look like.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:27:22]:

But then there's also the Bitch. It's also that time where you have to step back and you have to say, listen, NO is a complete sentence. Like, I'm reclaiming my time. I'm reclaiming my peace. And, it doesn't have to be a negative thing. It's just that time. It's that getting to know and understand that if I don't take care of me mentally, physically, and emotionally, no one else will. And I think a lot of, not I think, but I know often people look at the term and they, and they look at it as an insult or a bad thing or a nasty thing, but it, it's not about that in that sense. In this sense, it's just about you. It's about you deciding and setting your expectations and boundaries for yourself and holding yourself accountable. And so to other people, they may call it a phase, but to you, you know that this is a coming to me phase.

Christopher [00:28:07]:

Wow. So when we started this, Heather and I, and we’ve, I've told this several times, those three words were provocative and well known. So they just seem to be a great foundation for a provocative podcast. We've been doing this now for eight years, and each step along the way, the depth that you just so eloquently described is how we have fallen in love with these words, and to us, why they are so powerful, so necessary to understand as a woman, because they represent your power. They're not. They're not words used that people can just, you know, use and put you into a category with. These are words you can stand on as a foundation and build from exactly in the way you just described them. Thank you for exposing that in such an eloquent way. Thank you so much.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:29:15]:

Thank you. Thank you for having me, and allowing me, and sharing this space with me. When I first heard the name, I was like, oh. I was like, this is. I gotta go. I got. This is interesting. I Gotta learn more. I gotta see where we’re going with this. And so I'm so happy to be in this space and being able to have this discussion with you both today because that's exactly what I thought of when I saw those three words. And I just was saying this is like, this is a journey. This is a journey that needs to go down. So thank you.

Christopher [00:29:49]:

Tell us about your work. Tell us how people can connect with your work. Tell us how they can connect with your books. Please. The floor is yours. Let us know about you.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:29:58]:

Absolutely. So yes, I'm Reverend Doctor Xenia Barnes. I'm from Brooklyn, New York. My organization is the Melquain Jatelle Anderson Foundation, fighting against gun violence via education. However, my business is Gold Mind Thoughts. As a speaker, I go by RDB speaks, which is my name by initial. You can find me on all social media platforms. That's rdb_speaks.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:30:25]:

My books are self-help books. Grieving to Heal, The Courageous Pursuit of Authenticity, and Triumph in the Trenches, Volume One and Two, Volume Three will be coming out in February, so snap it up. Stay tuned. And then also Loving Yourself through the trauma. And that's a workbook that guides you through my framework of moving from trenches to triumph and finding out how to fall in love with yourself all over again. If you follow me on social media, the link is in the bio, and that will allow you to get a copy of all of the books.

Christopher [00:31:02]:

So, Xenia, give us the definition behind your name again.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:31:06]:

Yes. So my name is Xenia. Most people will see it, and they would think that because it's spelled with an X, they would think it's Zenya, but it's actually Senya. And the name, the meaning of it is hospitable and welcoming.

Christopher [00:31:19]:

I would also add hurricane. You are a powerhouse. You are a hurricane in what it is that you do, the change you make in the world around you. Like you are amazing. Absolutely amazing. It is our absolute privilege and pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much for your time.

Rev. Dr. Xenia Barnes [00:31:43]:

Thank you so much for having me. And if I have one thing last to say, it would just be sometimes the storm that comes is not meant to break you. Sometimes it's meant, it's sent to shake you of the things that were holding you back.

Christopher [00:32:00]:

Thank you so much. And you have been listening to the.

Heather [00:32:03]:

The Virgin,

Christopher

The Beauty, 

Heather

And, the Bitch

Christopher [00:32:07]:

Find Us. Like us. Share us. Please come on back, bring your friends. To become a partner in the VBB community, we invite you to find us @virginbeauty.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are Defiantly Different like you.

Until next time, thanks for listening.