VBB 340: Deena Baikowitz — Networking Isn’t A One Night Stand!

Intro [00:00:01]:

Virgin Beauty Podcast: inspiring women to overcome social stereotypes and share unique life experiences without fear of being defiantly different. Your hosts, Christopher and Heather. Let's talk, shall we?

Christopher [00:00:20]:

In all of human history, women have never had more access, more opportunity, or more invitation to speak, speak their truth, and share their unique experiences. Yet many of those opportunities come and go in silence. But why? It's a topic for conversation with coach, trainer, writer, speaker, marketing director, and comedian Dinar Berkowitz, AKA Fireball. Dina, welcome to Virgin Beauty, bitch.

Deena Baikowitz [00:00:51]:

I love that introduction. That is so much of what I'm about to women in particular, but people in general, speaking their truth, telling our stories.

Christopher [00:01:03]:

I clipped a quote, actually, from a recent article you did, and I'm paraphrasing here a bit, but basically the quote reads, it's so important for women to speak up and show up instead of it. The message being, quite frankly, the usual, pale, stale, and male. Now, Heather and I agree, but please, some context to that tantalizing intake of yours.

Deena Baikowitz [00:01:27]:

Wow. I'm not sure which article. I wrote that, and I agree with it. Obviously, I said it. I don't take credit for other people's words. I use a lot of words on my own. I don't know who coined the term pale, stale, and male. I'm involved in so many women's groups, and I truly believe in pay it forward, each one teach one.

Deena Baikowitz [00:01:46]:

We learn and we teach, but women tend to shirk back, to shrink back, to be more afraid to speak up for all the reasons we know of, because it puts us in the hot seat in a bad way, where if you show up, you're at risk of being hurt. If people see you, they can do something to you. They can criticize you, they can knock you down. But I truly believe that whatever fear, and insecurity, and shame, and hesitation, and all the things that are going through our heads, we have to show up. We have to speak up and speak out, not just for ourselves, because it is incredibly empowering to push through your fears, but also for others to lead by example.

Deena Baikowitz [00:02:35]:

Because I have learned from women whom I've seen. Like the first time I heard a woman stand up at a. At an event, and she was talking about banking and finance. And I was in awe because I didn't know that women could or did talk about money in positions of power in corporate America. And this is 2003, so a long time ago, but not that long ago. You know, I just. It's not that I didn't know it, but I hadn't seen it much and hadn't seen that a lot of women were doing it. So hearing women negotiate and show up and be bold and brassy and brave.

Deena Baikowitz [00:03:11]:

I was like, I want to do that. And so there's a recent example where I almost hesitated to speak up because of the room. It didn't feel like the most welcoming room. Didn't feel like there was a place, there wasn't. Nobody said, hey, does anyone have any questions or anything they want to share or say? But I knew it was something I had to say. And I, from the back, like, waving frantically because I'm really, really tiny and happened to be in the back. Even though nobody puts baby in a corner, nobody puts Fireball in a corner. And I said something to that effect, of women need to show up and speak up and make our voices heard.

Deena Baikowitz [00:03:53]:

And the message was along those lines. And I didn't know how well it would or wouldn't be received. It wasn't about being received. It was just, I couldn't live with myself that day if I didn't say what was on my mind, because this is what I do. And so many women came up to me afterwards, of all ages, and said, thank you for saying that. It was encouraging and inspiring. And I also shared the fact that I was like, this might not be the room. Because nobody asked me if I wanted to say something.

Deena Baikowitz [00:04:19]:

Maybe we need to stop waiting for permission and wait, not wait to be asked. But, like, how did we connect? Right? I reached out to Sharon in a LinkedIn comment. We met in the comment section of somebody's LinkedIn post, and I said, I would like to talk to you more. I would like to get to know you. You seem like a really interesting person. No sales pitch. Like I said, are you open to networking? And I put, I always do this. "Open brackets," not a sales call. 

Deena Baikowitz [00:04:43]:

And that's led to. She introduced me to both of you for this show, and she and I are recording our own show where we speak up and we speak out. And yes, the pale, stale, and male unholy trinity. We've all heard that we need. We need male allies. There's no question. And everyone has had their look.

Deena Baikowitz [00:05:08]:

And I know I speak from white privilege, and yet I think we can all be allies to each other. The more diverse voices, the better. Like, I do comedy, I do stand-up. I have my own point of view and my own premises about it. I talk about dating. A lot of people talk about dating, but I talk about it with hope and optimism and, you know, a little bit of frustration. But also. And I got back online because I'm a resilient little fireball. I used a different word.  Some of my comedy is clean for the corporate stages, and some of it is pretty filthy at night at the clubs because we are all a combination of extremes on every spectrum.

Deena Baikowitz [00:05:44]:

What was the question, and did that answer it?

Christopher [00:05:52]:

You did. You did answer, for sure. It's. It's about giving mentorship. Mentorship and giving examples for women to follow so that they don't feel so isolated or so afraid of taking the stage and stepping into the spotlight.

Deena Baikowitz [00:06:08]:

Yeah, it's so important. And whatever anyone's message is, like, we. We all are. You know, I like, say you are truly unique, just like everybody else. So we all have something about us that's different. We could deliver the same line in different ways. We could have. We have the same message.

Deena Baikowitz [00:06:26]:

Right. Speak up and speak out, but from different lived experiences. And I find a lot of women, and it's because of society and history and just the way we're cultured to want to do it right. What's everyone else doing? Well, I have never fit in. I've never looked or acted or thought or walked or talked like anybody else. And that was a source of pain, pain and trauma for so much of my life. And when I finally learned to embrace, no, I'm never going to look different.

Deena Baikowitz [00:06:56]:

I am who I am. My brain is my brain. My personality is my personality. I can either fight it or work with it. And for me, the idea that we should all have to conform, you know, one size never fits all. So to help women speak their truth and tell their story in their own way, and realize that that's okay, and you might not be. I'm not forever. I am not, you know, what is it? I am not everybody's cup of tea, but I am somebody's triple shot of Fireball.

Deena Baikowitz [00:07:27]:

Again, my expression. I don't steal jokes or lines, but I love that people send them to me all the time. There's another one that says, you will never be too much for someone who can't get enough of you. Right? So, whether you think you're too much or too little or too quiet or too loud or too tall or too short, you are who you are. And your message, your story, your lesson will resonate, will matter, will inspire somebody. Not everybody, but somebody. And that, to me, that's what makes us interesting. I don't go, God, nobody wants to meet more than one of me.

Deena Baikowitz [00:08:09]:

Like, let's be honest, there is only one of each of us. But that's what makes things interesting. It's like eating one food for the rest of your life every single day, all day. Who would want that variety? And. And that's how we learn. I want to learn from people with a different life experience, with different perspective, with different opinions.

Heather [00:08:31]:

So, I mean, I just so enjoy what you've said already. And I think, wow, wow. I mean, how that one phrase that you just said, you know, you'll never be too much for someone who can't get enough of you. I mean, that one's going to stay with me for a long time. Because, you know, historically, women have been told, if you're not quiet, pleasant, and, you know, in your lane, then you're too much. So it's been a very purposeful effort to keep us silenced and easy to manage for quite a long time. So that is a very humbling and healing phrase. But, you know, as Christopher started us off with, you know, that women have more access than we ever have to being able to vocalize, you know, what we're thinking, our contributions, see ourselves in different lights, and strive for our own ambitions.

Heather [00:09:20]:

You know, with your podcast and with your work and with your humor, what do you think are still some of the things that women feel like they're being held back or that they're not showing up in their full, authentic self?

Deena Baikowitz [00:09:33]:

In so many ways? That's a great question. There's one term that I really do not like, the impostor syndrome, which we've all talked about, right? Women, I have the impostor syndrome. I don't think I'm good enough. And some of the work I do. Listen, people pay me to give them confidence to get past these ideas, but it's in the sense of how do you translate it into work? So, how do you speak on a podcast when you're worried that people won't want to hear what you have to say? Or how do you get up on a panel at a conference when you think you're not as worthy or experienced or accomplished as the other men or even the other women on the panel? So to that point, the impostor syndrome is actually. They've done research about it. It's been flipped the script and reframe it and rename it. Because imposter syndrome puts the responsibility and the blame back on us.

Deena Baikowitz [00:10:25]:

Right? It's our fault. No, back to what's it that. That ingrained. It's the authority gap is another word people use, the ambition penalty, where if we've been told you're not good enough, or who do you think you are? Oh, you're too bossy, right? Men are bosses. Women are bossy. I've had a keychain since I was a kid, and I still have it somewhere. It's purple and pink and plastic, probably all microplastics, or maybe it was before everything in my life is micro. I'm this big. But this tiny little keychain says I'm not bossy, I just have better ideas. And I, I look at him like, damn, like younger me actually kind of had her shit together in some ways, like knew who she was. But it. How did you art? I never knew how to articulate that going into a job interview. How do I say I have really great ideas? Well, now I know.

Deena Baikowitz [00:11:24]:

It's actually 1 of the 34 strengths in StrengthsFinder themes proven by the Gallup organization, like through evidence-based research. It's called ideation. My number one strength is ideation. I have incredible ideas that other people haven't thought of. I see connections and connect the dots and put things together in a way nobody else might have and call it innovative and creative, strategic. But it's ideation. So I'm not bossy. I just have better ideas.

Deena Baikowitz [00:11:50]:

That is a way to reframe, and I think part of that reframing for women, I'm not as good as them. I don't know as much as they do, you know, differently, you know, maybe not as much, not the same, but that's what makes it interesting. And one client that I was coaching, she said, well, if I go up on stage and I take this position on this panel, what if someone asked me a question I don't know the answer to? I can't say I don't know, I'll look like an idiot. And to validate her point, this is corporate America. She works for a Fortune 500 company dealing with money, banking, and finance. And I said, well, first of all, people in that room are not trying to trip you up. Their goal is not to make you look bad. If somebody does that, somebody else better shut them down or you should.

Deena Baikowitz [00:12:38]:

But like, let's put that aside. Let's assume that all the professionals in that 99.9% are not actually, they're asking you to speak on the panel because you have something to offer. And if someone asks you a question that you don't know the answer to, let's flip that to an opportunity. That's a great question. Instead of saying I don't know, that's not my Area of expertise. But so and so on. My team specializes in that. Why don't I set up a meeting for us? So now you've seen that she's confident, right? Because I believe the most confident people are the ones who are willing to admit, I don't know something or want to learn more.

Deena Baikowitz [00:13:15]:

She's talked about her team because she's a leader, and that she has diverse people, and that's now an opportunity to get to know somebody else. And you're still selling them your expertise. In a way. My. One of my biggest beefs is with people who walk in who think they know everything. Like, the stupidest person in the room is the guy. And it's always a guy who thinks he knows more than everyone else and cannot be convinced of anybody's opinion other than his own. So I'd rather say, I don't know.

Deena Baikowitz [00:13:42]:

Teach me. Or I was wrong. I'm sorry. I made a mistake. You know, I thought I knew. Oh, I got that fact wrong. Okay. Fact check, spell check.

Deena Baikowitz [00:13:51]:

And also, does it. Like, what matters most? Like, what matters most in life. And to me, that's relationships, people coming together. A friend is someone who knows everything about you and loves you anyhow. Right?

Deena Baikowitz [00:14:07]:

Like, we have to as women, especially. And I do believe men need this too. And it's not fair to men that they've been trained and nurtured to always be right and never show weakness and, you know, man up and balls this and balls that. I say this unironically as a woman whose company is Fireball Network, because my boss, a woman, said she's a little fireball of energy. Hire her as a recommendation for a consulting gig. But this idea that we're not allowed to be wrong, that we're not allowed to make mistakes, that we're not allowed to fail is garbage. We're human. We're gonna make mistakes.

Deena Baikowitz [00:14:48]:

We're gonna. We're gonna fail. We're gonna F up. But if we don't, like, where's the growth? Otherwise?

Christopher [00:14:56]:

It's interesting you say that, because I read a piece where you. Someone asked you about, basically, if you could correct the mistakes you've made in the past, what would that look like? And you. You mentioned that you wouldn't give up those mistakes or the things you were afraid of or whatever it might be, because they formed who you are today.

Deena Baikowitz [00:15:19]:

Wow. You. You've done more research.  Like, I don't even remember that one either. But I'm like, you got to tell me, because I got to put that out there.

Deena Baikowitz [00:15:28]:

But it's true. I mean, I'm not. I'm not joking. Yeah, It's. I believe that we also. We can't go back. Right. The trauma and the bullying and the insecurities that I've had because I was not always this confident.

Deena Baikowitz [00:15:42]:

Show up, you know, balls out, whatever. The expressions are like, I. I mean it now. It's genuine. I'm not pretending in any way. Although there are still moments where I am insecure and I feel a little. And I suck it up and, you know, be brave. I'm not fearless by any means.

Deena Baikowitz [00:15:59]:

But a. We can't go back, so there's no point. Like, and. And this, you know, I. I say this often.

I learned about this in therapy last week.

Deena Baikowitz [00:16:08]:

I'm going to share it with you this week, which is something none of us would have said 10, 20 years ago. You wouldn't admit this kind of stuff in a professional setting. I. I was a social worker. Like, I was on the track to become a therapist. I ran therapy with patients and their families. Why would we be ashamed of it? Because we're all human beings, and we're dealing with a very, very complicated world and complicated lives. So this is the expression that one of the many expressions, concepts that I really, truly believe in is no amount of regret will change the past, and no amount of anxiety is going to change the future. Create the future. We're living in the here and now. Right.

Deena Baikowitz [00:16:48]:

And so, for me, at least, a lot of the mistakes I made was I did the. There's another, like, I did the best that I could with what I had in the situation I was in. And I used to say, so I wasn't. It wasn't my best. It was just the best that I could do in that time and place under those circumstances.

Deena Baikowitz [00:17:13]:

And somebody who I was very, very close with for many years said, well, if you did the best you could under those circumstances, then that was your best, and that's okay. Like, that really was the best you could do. Don't diminish that. And that also helped me reframe. So, you know, are there some mistakes? I would like to change that. If I had the magic wand, sure. You know, maybe that outfit was really.

Deena Baikowitz [00:17:39]:

Not a great idea. You know, a wrap dress on Park Avenue on a windy day is just Marilyn Monroe, but without the stylists around her. The dress was cute, but not, well, Marilyn Monroe. Like, ooh, you know, I flashed Park Avenue. That's probably not a mistake I would ever change because that popped up in.

Deena Baikowitz [00:17:56]:

My Facebook memories and I'm like, oh. That was a funny post. I wrote about it. Expose yourself, like, show up and, you know, speak your truth. Like, again, is there a point to that story? I don't know, whatever. But, like, I could make one of, you know, women's fashion choices.  Wrap dresses. I still like wrap dresses, but I just, you know, plan according.

Deena Baikowitz [00:18:19]:

Look, are there mistakes? Are there people I've dated or relationships, business relationships I've gotten into? Have I let people take advantage of me, or take advantage of my innocence, or my naivety, or my kindness? Was I a people pleaser? Yes. Those are all things that I have had to unlearn and relearn. Are there people who didn't do that? And like, mom, we're not to begin with. Great. But that's. It's. It's my truth, and it's how I've gotten to where I am now, and if, and not just if, but when and how I can help other people. Like, that is my story and those. That is my transformation. 

Deena Baikowitz [00:18:48]:

I was like, I used to be like this. I'm still the same person, but I got rid of some of the bad habits. I learned some new ones. I used to be ashamed of certain things, like, of not being able to fit in or match up or be like other people, which is a stupid thing to be ashamed of. But it's also what we were taught.

Deena Baikowitz [00:19:16]:

Like, oh, you didn't. You're not this successful. You're not that. Whether it's your looks or your money or your job title or whatever, your living situation. And learning to let go is transformative. So I've learned from other people. Right, again, that is the number one lesson is we learn from others, we teach others. So as long as there is a meaning in it and we can make.

Deena Baikowitz [00:19:41]:

It's not that everything happens for a reason. Sometimes there's just bad luck, and shit happens. But if we can make meaning out of it or use it as a, you know, don't repeat the same mistakes twice. Like, you know, a little too often. If I had to say after a bad day, well, that was another learning. Experience, you know, oh, no, not another effing learning experience. But now it's like. But it's material. It's comedy.

Heather [00:20:12]:

I love that. I mean, I think that, you know, I'm just really curious on this question because you have, you know, articulated something that a lot of us feel, which is, you know, that failure is kind of part of the human code and, and just part of our experience. And also, sometimes we tend to repeat the Same learning experiences, shall we say? So I mean, what do you find is a good balance for you where you really try to learn from the past and apply it to moving forward? But sometimes in the universe or our lives, we just feel like we're stuck in a pattern or making those same learning experiences again and again. What do you have for our guests when they're feeling a bit stuck?

Deena Baikowitz [00:21:03]:

That is a really great question, one that I'm going to bring to my therapist next week. He's awesome. My therapist is a man, in fact, male and pale, but definitely not stale. So there's a few things, right? Getting stuck but making the same mistakes over and over again, that is a really big problem, right? Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it. So recognize. And from a therapeutic standpoint, recognizing our patterns is really important. And back to like, no amount of regret will change the past. No amount of anxiety is going to create your future.

Deena Baikowitz [00:21:39]:

I mean, it will just create a really anxious one. For me, at least. I can't speak for everybody, but even for my clients, there are three ways. One, we need to look at ourselves and say, what did I do wrong there? Like, what's wrong? In the sense that what did I not like about that interaction? Like, did I give up something? From a people-pleasing standpoint, if I really wanted to spend the day doing xyz, but a friend asked me to do ABC and I didn't really want to, but I said yes because I didn't want to disappoint her, because that might mean I'd lose the friendship, or I didn't want to hurt her feelings. Like, you know all those stories, well, that's a shame on me. Like, I have to be able to set, you know, boundaries, standards, expectations. And being honest, I think that with people it is really important. Also getting feedback from other people, friends, trusted friends, coaches, and therapists.

Deena Baikowitz [00:22:27]:

Like, do not try to figure it out alone. And I don't just say this because I am a coach who's also a social worker. No one succeeds alone. No one thrives. We don't live in a vacuum. We need perspective. So that's another mistake I think I made in the past was not asking for more help, not asking, not opening up. And one of my new but still very dear friends, when I confided something to her, and she's like, you gotta let that go.

Deena Baikowitz [00:22:55]:

That baggage is way too heavy. Stop dragging it around. And that, like you make a choice. Do I want to keep carrying and schlepping the bags that are bigger than me because I overpack. I tend to overpack. That's another lesson, right? Metaphorically and literally. Or do you want to, like, face the fear, and who do you want to be? So the first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging that you have a problem if you know there's something getting you stuck and you feel bad about it.

Deena Baikowitz [00:23:30]:

I have lots of systems that I use. Like, a gut check for me is really critical. And you just sit. And again, a coach taught me this, and then I took it and I expanded on it. So one of the things I do is I just kind of sit down, sit somewhere quietly, generally close my eyes, because visual stimulation, you know, gets me thinking. So it's like, okay, if I have to make a choice between two friends, two things, you know, two things I want to do or don't want to do, how will I feel? How do I want to feel if I do xyz, how do I. How will I feel? Or how do I want to feel if I do abc? If I miss. If I don't do the first one, how will I feel about missing it? And sometimes I'll say, well, it could be a choice between two networking events, or go to a networking event, or going to a dance class.

Deena Baikowitz [00:24:14]:

I mean, this. To me, this framework works personally, professionally, and almost anything. How will I feel if I miss it? Well, if I miss it, I've missed it. I'll never know, right? Or how will I feel if I didn't do this? Or how will I feel if I go to this and it's bad now? I can either kick myself all day long and say, oh, you made a bad.

Deena Baikowitz [00:24:34]:

You made a bad choice. Oh, look at you. You're dumb. That was really wrong. Or I could say, okay, I tried it. At least I tried it. Or I didn't go, that's it. One of the things I do for networking events is I kind of. I go in with a strategy, I go in with a goal, but I also say serendipity. Let's just see. Something will happen. Something good will happen. What shall be shall be. I will meet who I will meet, and I always end up meeting somebody interesting. Many people. So, you know, figuring out what you're willing is the pain of making the same mistake over and over again. It's the pain of living with old habits, of being afraid to speak up at work, and being afraid to chase a client. Make a cold call, make a warm introduction, get on a podcast. Is the pain and the fear of all that, you know, is it worth letting that go on versus the pain and fear of, like, taking a chance? 

Deena Baikowitz [00:25:31]:

And one thing, and I will say this forever and ever and ever, and this is like, social work is about empowerment. It's not about telling people what to do. It's helping them figure out what's right for them. When you face a fear, whatever the result, when you try something that you are scared of or you try something new, it builds confidence. Take me inherently, like, I know that when I have admitted something to someone, and they're like, you go, girl. Don't let anybody else dim your lights or put out your fire. You know, don't take that crap from somebody else, whatever the situation or, like, go after it. What's the worst that can happen? It's like, oh, wow.

Deena Baikowitz [00:26:06]:

And. And all of a sudden, I'm a little more confident. And the things that scared me last week don't scare me anymore. There's another scary thing up ahead to try. But, like, I'm more equipped to deal with it. I've done the reps, and I carry the heavy bags. So, to me, I like that idea. It's not.

Deena Baikowitz [00:26:23]:

I don't talk about getting outside your comfort zone necessarily. It's stretching your comfort zone, so it's even bigger. This is somebody who, like, only has this much reach, but I'm very flexible. It's the only way I can reach things like, oh, stretch, I love.

Heather [00:26:43]:

Because on my screen, the way I see you, your arms are going beyond, like, the box that you're in. So it looks like you could reach anywhere, girl. Literally anywhere.

Deena Baikowitz [00:26:51]:

You know what? Metaphorically, can we say that to all your listeners? Girl, you can reach anywhere. Truly virgin beauty, whoever you are. Reach. Reach for it. Stretch. Like, why? I can't. There's a lot I can't reach. But that's why I have people in my life who help me. That's why I have a board of advisors, and I collaborate with other people. And I have a thing for tall women, apparently. To collaborate with tall women, whatever it is, all. Most of my female collaborators are close to 6ft or over 6ft tall, because there are things I can't reach without them.

Heather [00:27:30]:

And things they can't reach without you.

Deena Baikowitz [00:27:32]:

You drop something on the floor, I'm gonna pick it up. I'm closer to the ground. It's easier for me. I wanna feel needed. You might throw your back out. It's gonna take you longer just to get there. I'm there already, right?

Heather [00:27:46]:

You have, like, a really strong center of gravity. I feel like there's, like, stability there.

Deena Baikowitz [00:27:51]:

The only stability in my life. But, yeah, I am not what we would call stable. No, I'm joking. It's part of my comedy. I was like, I'm not. You know, God is not a great structural engineer. I have, like, really short legs and really big brains. Really. God is fair. But she is a lousy structural engineer. And so, like I say, I'm not physically stable or mentally stable or rent stable.

Heather [00:28:18]:

The humor lens is how I get through a lot of things in life. So I appreciate that that's an element that you bring to the table. We love to ask our guests this question of the virgin, the beauty, and the bitch. Is there one that really stands out to you and brings something out for you?

Deena Baikowitz [00:28:35]:

I have to go with that because it's not something I ever embraced in the past, or maybe I did, but I didn't really own it. And also, there's a song Bitch Babe in total control of herself. And this was a gut check because at first I was like, they all mean something. I am a former English lit major. And as a creative, like, we can find meaning in anything, right? Beauty. Actually, I played the lead that I played in a she. I played the devil. Her name was Lucy, like Lucifer.

Deena Baikowitz [00:29:07]:

It was a play. I was young, I was just out of high school, and there was a scene about Beauty. She. She wanted a baby more than anything in the world, and she couldn't have a baby. And to the performers in her freak show, which is, of course, totally, like, on PC, and this is, unfortunately, what circuses were about. They were the ugliest couple in the world, and they wanted Beauty more than anything. They were willing to give up their child for it. Now, why do I tell you this? I mean, it's a whole other story.

Deena Baikowitz [00:29:31]:

And I walked in there thinking, well, if I'm lucky, I'll get cast in the back row of the chorus. And, like, the most incredible show, they're like, we want you for the lead. And. And so I did. That's why I said I didn't step into the beauty part. I was a virgin back then in the sense in every way of, like, shy and insecure and naive and innocent. I think we're all virgins in a lot of ways. There are things we don't know. There are things to learn. I was watching an old comedy set. I said, well, I. I was a virgin until today. I just got my first dick pick.  I was like, they're like, wait, you're how 50, 51.  When I got my first photograph of Unsolicited. Because you know, solicited is a whole other story. 

Deena Baikowitz [00:30:02]:

But so, like, we're all virgins in some ways, but that word only applies to women, which is a whole other problem. Right? Like, people don't ask men, are you, are you not? Do they check? Like, beauty is what we've always been judged for, our exterior appearance, for women, so much more than men. So that carries so much weight. But I think. And I.

Deena Baikowitz [00:30:36]:

What is beauty is your soul, is your personality. You know, do you show up and not care what we look like or what we're dressed in, the makeup? Who cares about any? Like, beauty is your soul. Is. Are you a beautiful human being? That, to me, is what matters. Are you kind to others? Do you work for what you want? Do you speak up for what you believe in? But is like, let's own it. Like, we. We. I have learned to be a.

Deena Baikowitz [00:31:00]:

I was not in the past. I was truly shy and insecure. I would advocate for others. I would fight for others no matter what. Like, that didn't scare me. But to advocate for myself, to speak up and stand out and fight back against abuse and all of it. No. And somebody wants to call me a.

Deena Baikowitz [00:31:22]:

For standing up for myself or standing up for somebody else. Babe in total control of herself. Thank you for the compliment. Thank you for acknowledging my power and my. You know, it's also a bit of a fear thing, right? If someone thinks you're tough and strong and scary, they won't mess with you, which is why Chihuahuas are the yappiest, noisiest. I am like a Chihuahua in that regard. My bark is generally worse than my bite.

Deena Baikowitz [00:31:52]:

Oh, there's no. That goes all my negotiating cred. They're like, yeah, she's actually.

Deena Baikowitz [00:31:56]:

I'm like, no. People are like, Deena's really, really sweet and kind, but don't mess with her, because you will regret it if you cross her. If you do the wrong thing. Like, I don't talk, make mistakes is one thing, but if you. If you hurt me or my friends, like, again, Miss Congeniality, if anyone here.

Deena Baikowitz [00:32:18]:

Hurts any of my friends, they will feel the wrath of.

Christopher [00:32:23]:

Yeah, it's like you're hitting the nail on the head. As far as Heather and I are concerned, and why we use these words, the way they have been presented, they are seen historically as one way, but as you just articulated, they are deeper, wider, broader, and carry such weight. That is why we are called what we're called. And as far as the Bitch is concerned, that is an area that Heather and I will be getting into in depth over the next little while, because as you said, it is a woman expressing her true self. It is a woman stepping out of what she has been conditioned to be. It is who we, we all are. But for women especially, and the way they're conditioned in society, this is power.

Deena Baikowitz [00:33:23]:

Yeah.

Christopher [00:33:23]:

True power. And that is an area we will be going into in depth with, talking with people who are experts on these kinds of topics. So thank you for sharing your perspective on that. You are, we are so in alignment, it is not even funny.

Deena Baikowitz [00:33:42]:

Oh, thank you. Like, this really was a treat. I mean, thank you for giving. We started off, you said, you know, telling women to take a platform and speak up, and you've let me talk almost nonstop for the better part of 45 minutes. And I appreciate it because I do. Your platform and your questions, your questions are really good.

Christopher [00:34:05]:

Thank you.

Deena Baikowitz [00:34:06]:

They're deep. They're not the usual. And I purposely didn't prepare, prepare for today. I don't script, I think a little bit about maybe what I want to talk about, but because of the way you structured it and positioned it, and you're like, we want it to be organic. We want it to be honest and authentic. I'm like, great. No agenda other than like, just show up, have fun, be myself. Knowing what the title was, knowing that the two questions, when you said, do you want us to ask you about what being feminine means or beauty? And I was like, why not both? Because I don't love rules and I don't like playing favorites.

Deena Baikowitz [00:34:45]:

Right. But like just that gut. And I know there was something I said that I was like, oh. But I wanted to add a note to that. Like I said something that I think may have come out not exactly the way I meant it. And at this point, I don't think it was right before you asked me the one about beauty virgin. So I was like, you know, we. No one's put right whatever quote, unquote mistakes or we're all here to support each other and connect and build community and relationships.

Deena Baikowitz [00:35:13]:

So, and let's have fun at it. And yeah, you know. Oh yeah, that was, that was my whole point about diminishing myself. Like, not stable, always comes back to it. We should not diminish ourselves. Like, all kidding aside, this is really etiquette. It's one thing to joke about diminishing ourselves.

Deena Baikowitz [00:35:32]:

And I may say, oh, I'm unstable, but that's a joke, right? We do need to own our power. And so I am saying this to anybody that thinks oh, we need to pretend like we're not so strong. No. Once we are confident enough, that's the. A friend is someone who knows everything about you and loves you anyhow. When you are confident enough in your power, you can joke about yourself in a way that isn't diminishing. Self-deprecating for a reason, for a lesson to say, hey, none of us are entirely stable or perfect. It's an unstable world.

Deena Baikowitz [00:36:02]:

But not to own that message of, oh, I'm a failure, I'm an F up. Look, I'm horrible. Now, on the other hand, it's like, you say I'm a bitch, like it's a bad thing.

Deena Baikowitz [00:36:13]:

I'm like, it's a compliment. You know, it's like, what? Fireball bitch to you, babe? Okay, I'm like queen to you.

Deena Baikowitz [00:36:25]:

But to get in touch with me, I really do love connecting with people. And truly, I design networking events. I design networking experiences to bring people together. So, for all of you who are listening, I take phone calls. I mean, I have a scheduler to set up networking calls, Zoom calls, and coffee meetings. It's FireballNetwork.com is our website. I am Fireball Dina on Instagram, Dina Bakewitz on LinkedIn.

Deena Baikowitz [00:36:52]:

You can also find me on most of the dating apps.

Deena Baikowitz [00:36:58]:

Somebody asked me that once after a con. They're like, where can we find you? I'm like, Gumble, Hinge, Tinder, jj. She's like, no social media. I'm like, things on all the dating apps. You know, LinkedIn, New York Stock Exchange. I mean, really, I just like to be on somebody's lineup on, you know. HBO, Netflix, Apple+TV. But right now, find me on all the socials or most of them under Fireball Dina, Fireball Network, or Dina Baikowitz. And I genuinely mean that, if anybody wants to talk, I truly love connecting with human beings because I'm in the business and pleasure of relationships. It's all about the sparks and chemistry that happen when we share our stories and connect.

Christopher [00:37:45]:

Funny you say that because in reading about you and now meeting you and talking to you, I see the wire that goes between one lamppost to the next, connects through the entire city or the entire world. Basically, you are that wire. You're the electricity that runs through that wire connecting these points of light. That's how I see who you are.

Deena Baikowitz [00:38:11]:

Oh, my God, that's beautiful. I love that analogy, Christopher. Electricity and light. Thank you.

Christopher [00:38:20]:

Our Fireball.

Deena Baikowitz [00:38:23]:

Thank you. I mean, we talk about, you know, networking as sparks and chemistry between People, it's like when you are on a date, if there's chemistry, you have a second date. If you have, if you're at a networking event, you're at work, you're interviewing for a job, you want to join a committee, you want to do volunteer work, you're meeting a friend, you're trying out a new dance class, is there chemistry? Is it a fit? Like, do we want to get to know each other better? It's not a one-night stand like anything else. I mean, one-night stands are one-night stands. That's just what they are. But I like to say there's no instant gratification networking, except for the instant gratification of having a human interaction. Even if it doesn't lead to anything. It's that in that moment, what did you learn? You might learn, I never want to talk to that person again.

Deena Baikowitz [00:39:07]:

Or this woman does not know how to shut up. But she was very entertaining. So I should probably buy tickets to her show or book her at a conference.

Deena Baikowitz [00:39:17]:

But yeah, thank you for that. Truly, though, that is. It's taken me a while to own and embrace because I don't believe in false modesty, but I also don't like narcissists and egotists, or just it's me, it's me, it's me. And I always say I would rather share the spotlight than be on stage alone. Like, if one light can try, like let me shine a light on what you do.

Christopher [00:39:43]:

We totally understand that. But thank you so much for taking the time to be with us, for being yourself with us, which we appreciate more than you can imagine.

Deena Baikowitz [00:39:54]:

Can only be ourselves, right? Who else are we going to be? Maybe that's the thing to embrace for all, to all of your listeners. Just embrace who you are. You can only be yourself. Don't ever try to be somebody else unless you're acting in a role. But in real life, like show up as you. You are enough. You are not too much. You are not, not enough.

Deena Baikowitz [00:40:16]:

You are just who you are. And that's what we're working with.

Christopher [00:40:19]:

And yes, on that note, you have been listening to

Heather

The Virgin

Christopher

The beauty.

Deena Baikowitz

And the Bitch

Heather [00:40:24]:

And the fiery bitch.

Christopher [00:40:31]:

Find Us. Like us.

Christopher [00:40:32]:

Share Us, and bring your friends.

Christopher [00:40:34]:

Come on back to become a partner in the VBB community. We invite you to find us @virginbeautybitch.com. Like us on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, and share us with people who are defiantly different like you.

Until next time, thanks for listening.