VBB 14 Relationship Secrets with Christina Hart!

TRANSCRIPT

Speaker 2: That music makes me want to take my clothes off. I'm not sure why.

Intro: So funky. It's that funky goodness. You know, I think

Christopher: That's what it is, you're listening to

Heather: The Virgin, the Beauty, and the Bitch.

Christopher: I'm Christopher.

Heather: And I'm Heather.

Christopher: Our podcast is an evocative journey into the reformation of feminine. We welcome all goddesses, gods, and genders. Welcome back. We like having fun. And today we're going to have a lot of fun because we have a special guest. Her name is Christine Hart. Welcome Christine.

Christine: Thank you. Happy to be here.

Christopher: Now, I met you just a few days ago, but it was like looking in the mirror, because my background is in the music industry. Yours is in the film industry, working with casting, right?  I found out that you were in Goa, India, in 2006.  And you made a discovery, basically a life-changing discovery for yourself. I was there in 2000. We went through the same process after being there for a month. Right. And, we also have a passion, it seems like, for human psychology and relationships. In your case in particular, is that your specialty? You’ve been a relationship coach for 16 years? Is that right?

Christine: Yes. And you've worked with Allison Armstrong and David Data. The top of the top. The cream of the crop. Right.

Christopher: What I find really intriguing is that we started talking about the feminine and the masculine, which is what our show obviously is all about here, and you have a book, The Art of Living a Flirtatious Life.

Christine: Yes. Celebrating your femininity in a fun, flirtatious way every day. Oh, yeah. Oh yes. We want some of that, yes.

Christopher: Exactly. So we wanted to, the first question I want to ask you, from your perspective, what is feminine to you?

Christine: Feminine to me is a state of mind. It's an approach to life. Femininity is a safe place. It's a soft place, but it's also a strong place. Femininity can show up in many forms. It can show up in very light forms. Like in my book, you know, painting your toenails or a spray of perfume. It can also show up in deeper forms where, you know, you attend one of those weekend workshops where you spend the whole weekend in your feminine and seeing, you know, coming in and out of your feminine space, a grounding, a rooting. So I think feminine and femininity can be whatever feels right to you as you discover it, too.

Christopher: So today, what I wanted to talk about a lot, and it falls into your field, was this feminine, not woman, not man, feminine in love. And what that essence is that we all seem to drift into that softness. You talk about that carefree feeling that we have.

Heather: Maybe it'll be helpful just to do a little recap on what we've explored in the feminine being. Chris and I have analyzed that if there is something to the biological functions of being a female, so that, you know, possibility of being impregnated, the vulnerability around sex and receiving bodily fluids, and how that relates to a higher risk and vulnerability during the sexual relations within, you know, humans and then other, female energies. And that, not that that is everything, but that there is something to be said about the correlations. And then what, what else would you say about it?

Christine: I just, I would just say that for us, we think of feminine, more as a spiritual essence. And then everything kind of flourishes out from there. So it basically resides in both women and men as a spiritual piece. And then we express it, you know, in the human sense to different degrees.

Heather. And of course, seeing the distinction between sex being female and then gender, woman, man, and then, you know, energies masculine and feminine. And then also taking a deeper look at what is between those two to get out of the dichotomous thinking and to see the harmony between those energies and what that entity looks like in the oneness.

Christine: Yeah. And I think you, there was one word that you said, receiving. And if we're talking about being more in the feminine, when we're falling in love, the feminine is all about receiving and letting, and allowing and being. I mean, the masculine is about doing, and the feminine is about being. And so I think it's, it's natural that we're falling in love. We're less in action mode. We're less trying to make something happen. We're allowing things to happen, you know, and we're allowing the flow to happen, and we're not attaching our ego to it, which is why sometimes we can freak ourselves out a little bit, you know. Like, whoa, I'm really out of control in this. But on the other side of that, out of control is such beauty, and connection, and a falling back into that balance of masculine and feminine. If we allow ourselves to fully go into feeling like it's okay to just let things happen. And it's not a sign of being necessarily, or directly, a sign of not being in control. Yes. You're in control of letting things happen.

Christopher: You know, that's an interesting way to, and

Heather: Being present with the synergy that's unfolding.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. And being okay with that.

Christopher: Oh, wow, I wish I could be in that all the time.

Christine: And it is interesting to look at the vulnerability of what it feels like to fall in love, because I feel that when you're going into vulnerability, you're, you're really taking a, a hard look at, these are my flaws. These are my insecurities. These are where my parents or my past have hurt me. Can you love me still and all of these components of who I am enough to keep your attention, to keep you satisfied, to keep you interested? And I think that is, it can be a very scary place to be when they reciprocate. You may be feeling that no matter who this person is. I'm going to embrace them and receive them as they are. Are they going to do the same? I'm going through a bit of it right now. So, Yeah. Fresh

Speaker 4: Naturally. Yeah. That is a scary place, and why it's scary is that they could say no. They could say, your vulnerability doesn't work for me. You've been vulnerable, and what you've shown me doesn't work. And that's a scary place to go. But what if the vulnerability says, I want more of that. Give me more of what you just gave me. Then the strength that is there and the lack of, oh, I just have to keep being myself. Wow. And being vulnerable.

Heather: That's what a feeling. Well, that's,

Christine: Yeah. That's easy.

Heather: I can do that. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. I think there is so, such a gift on the other side of vulnerability. I mean, I know. I think of Brene Brown, that's what kind of got me thinking about it. Her TED talk around it, and well, thinking about it more. T

Heather: That's such a fabulous TED talk.

Christine: Yeah. All of her TED talks are so good. Oh, she just goes there. Right. And I love it. She just goes there.

Heather: And I loved her for her logical mind. Yeah. You know how she breaks everything down and then explores the emotions behind the logic. Yeah.

Christine: Ugh. Yeah. Yeah. I think vulnerability is a great screening tool. Actually. It's a great screening tool in relationships. It’s are you ready for vulnerability? And if that would be an important piece to know if you're willing to move forward, you might not actually both want to be vulnerable at the exact same time. But are you both open and willing to, would be the bigger and more important question. And if your vulnerability actually scares and turns off well, that to me is a gauge that it's not a,

Speaker 3: Not a good fit.

Speaker 4: It's not a good fit.

Heather: And that is, I think, such an important piece is to view it that way as not a good fit. Not that you know, you are not enough or you weren't whatever. It's just that these two beings weren't, weren't the correct fit. Right. And I think that that ties into how to deal with rejection in not placing all of that burden on yourself, but knowing that that connection can be made with a person who fits. And to have that connection with yourself, you know, we've talked a lot about how to build up a well-rounded sense of self-worth, so that when you do meet those circumstances where it isn't a good fit, that you have enough within you that you can keep moving on. And it isn't, as you know, life-shattering.

Christine: I think rejection's a good thing.

Christopher: I think that vulnerability piece is really, really, really key because it's always seen as a weakness. However, a lot of what women see in femininity or what they've been preached at about femininity, they see now as a weakness. They've turned their back on it in a lot of cases. However, a lot of what the core principles of the feminine, like vulnerability, is an amazing strength if you can get through it to the other side. We've been taught so much that it's not a place that we want to go. We don't wanna be vulnerable because we'll be hurt, we'll be taken advantage of, people will use us. So we push it away. However you cross that bridge, you have a power, unbelievable power in that, in knowing who you are, who the other person is, that is an amazing landscape to be in.

Christine: Yeah. Because sometimes, I mean, the feminine core value is safety. So we are looking to have our environment and manipulate our environment in a positive way in order to gain safety, and so if we can separate the feeling of unsafe and being vulnerable and not confuse the two, that they're totally different. And so if you can say, I can still be safe, a hundred percent safe, and be vulnerable, and you've made me think of a conversation that we had, that we have had with a lot of men around this confusion. And sometimes women think that men are attracted to the damsel in distress. And that's a turnoff because most modern-day women don't really have an affinity with the damsel in distress, you know, being

Christopher: Tied to the railroad tracks,

Christine: Yeah. Like, they just, like, they just have this instant image of like, I can't do that. And so that's not what men are asking for in femininity at all. That's the furthest thing. It's definitely closer to a powerful woman who is willing to be vulnerable. And that is the hottest thing for a guy. It's like, she's powerful, but she's willing to be vulnerable. Oh yes. It's, it doesn't, like for the man I've talked with and explored this with, it's like they can't think of something that's better, more powerful, sexier, or more powerful. Powerful than that. Yes. Yeah.

Christopher: Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. And I think that really ties into the concept of still feeling safe and vulnerable, which is disassociating from that fight-or-flight response.  Right. Oh my gosh, here I am feeling exposed. You're really seeing all of me. Am I gonna run, am I gonna fight? I'm in this certain mental state, right? And how to, how to make those neurotransmitters think of vulnerability as a safe space when with the person who's ready to receive with that right. The connection between the two of you. And I'd like to pose the question as, you know, how do men meet women in that vulnerable feminine space?

Christopher: I think it allows men to be vulnerable because they're supposed to be the stronger, you know, I'm afraid of nothing. Right. This is, at least this is the persona I'm supposed to put on when I'm with you. Okay. I'm supposed to be invulnerable. However, you are being vulnerable, and you going there allows me to now follow you into that space. And that's what I'm talking about, this love piece is that it then opens the door for a man to walk through because she has gone through first, and she's waiting. So it allows a man to be vulnerable and to move forward as well through whatever feminine is in him.

Heather: I've heard some of my guy friends talk about, and people of all genders talk about, putting on a different kind of that strong kind of, I don't really care about you front. And they said that at least if they've kind of shaped their identity to be someone other than who they are, so that if rejection is to ensue, it wasn't the real them.

Christine: Interesting

Heather: And that rejection's easier rather than being yourself and being okay.

Christopher: Isn't that fraud

Heather: It seems like a lot of game work, and that's

Christopher: A lot of authentic

Heather: To yourself. You know,

Christopher: You have to be thinking about this, calculating this the whole way through. Oh, yeah. Like, where's the authenticity of you if you're like, manipulating this so you won't get hurt? Like, come on.

Heather: Yeah. I think it really shows how, you know, nervous people are to get hurt, and men, men especially, too, right?

Christine: Oh, Yeah. Men, in a lot of cases, take a lot longer, take it over heartache than women do. I mean, there's a lot to be said about how we can often misunderstand men's depth of emotion. And there's always a reason why this guard has been up. And oftentimes when I'm working with men and I have them share their history, they will go back to the first time a woman hurt them. And sometimes it will be , you know, grade seven, I was the first school dance, and I was, I saw her, she was so pretty, and I went up and asked her to dance, and she just shut me down.

Christopher Oh, I remember.

Heather: And my heart. Yes. . Yeah,

Christine: Exactly. Because up until that point, you are just like Gungho.

Heather: Don't, I could do this,

Christine: Your friends are, you know, pumping you up and uhhuh, you go across the dance floor and she says, No, and you gotta come back across the dance floor and

Christopher: Face the music

Christine: And face the music. 

Heather: Face the music and dance alone.

Christine: And dance alone. Yes. And then your friends all chime in. Oh, well, she's a Bitch, and she doesn't know she's missing. Let's go outside. You know. But it's interesting, they usually go back to maybe the last person they dated. They go all the way back when we're talking about their relationship with women and, yeah, the relationship with women in general. It goes back to that very specific moment in time. And then the layers start to build.

Christopher: Absolutely. That's the first and only time. Your heart is purely open. Yes. Right. You're innocent. You have no experience whatsoever.

Christine: Now you start building bricks, and putting those suck. You never wanna feel that again.

Christopher: Yeah. No, that humiliation. No

Heather: Ego's first real stab. Yeah. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. And we all have that. I mean, if we all take a moment to think, I would just, I mean, I can think of lots about you.

Christopher: Remember, do you remember yours? Yeah.

Christine: Well, I, you know, this was around the time, but I remember having a crush on this boy who was like a couple of years older, and I won't say his name. It was in elementary school, and I just thought he was so dreamy, and I'd see him walking around, and then I guess he found out that I had a crush on him. And it made him uncomfortable, 'cause I was much younger. Maybe I was in grade three and he was in grade six or something, you know, big gap. Right,

Heather: Light years apart, you know.

Christine: And then there I was, I went in, I haven't thought of this in so long. This is funny. There I was, in elementary, and I was at the top of the stairs, and he was at the bottom of the stairs. And I thought, oh my gosh, we're the only two people in the stairwell. My gosh. And he walked right up to me and he said, Christine, I don't like you .

Christine: Oh my. Really.

Christine: Something to that effect. And he just looked right at me. And I just, 'cause it's the first time I'd ever talked to him. Oh, right. The first time we'd ever exchanged words. I mean, I just admired his handsomeness from afar. And, I remember just like being mortified. Wow. You know, and I'm sure on some level, that had an effect on my early dating. I hadn't really thought about this in a long time, but I'm sure it had an effect on my early dating years of like, oh, yes, this is gonna happen on my terms. Mm. Yeah. You know how to protect. This'll happen on my terms.

Heather: For sure. How do I control the situation not to not feel that again Yes. Yeah. How would you describe that feeling when he said those words?

Christine: Shock and embarrassment. Oh. Extreme embarrassment. Like, wow. He knew, and he said that to me like I didn't know either. And, I think I developed this, if you, in my formative years, like the boys that I had crushes on, I didn't want to talk to them. I just wanted to keep them really at a distance. At a distance. Yes. You know, zone a safety zone. And so I'd go outta my way to like, avoid eye contact, physical presence. Everything you'll remain my fantasy period. Yes. You'll remain my fantasy. That's it. Heaven

Heather: Forbid we're in a stairwell together. Yeah.

Christine: My god. Avoid stairwells. You tell me you don't like me, I'll do everything in my power. Not had that happen.

Heather: Realizing like a stairway phobia, you know what I mean.

Christine: Oh, yeah.  Yeah. Totally.

Heather: I remember one of my first crushes when I was quite young, and we were in school together, and it was probably one of the first couple of days of classes, and she looked like Nick Carter. So she was a blend between the masculine and the feminine. Oh, wow. And I was fascinated by that. Yeah. And, it took me actually a while to know that she wasn't a boy. So at first I thought she was a boy. And when I finally worked up the courage to ask her who she was and introduce myself, I said her name wrong. After she had said it, she's like, my name's Mallory. And I'm like, it's a, it's a girl.  Wait a minute. I had a really hard time processing that. But, you know, once it got through that uncomfortability, yeah. Her and I became really, really good friends, you know, and I got to understand what it was like for her to kind of be in the middle at such a young age to be figuring that out. And, it's just, it was very fascinating to me. But certainly even in that moment of not being able to say her name. Right.

Christopher: Awkward.

Heather: Yeah, embarrassment. Oh my gosh. I've shown that I'm a total idiot. There's no way she could ever like me back.

Christopher:  Aren't those the best? Aren't those the best years, though?

Christine: Oh, Yeah.

Christopher: You know nothing.

Christine: You know nothing. Yeah. And you think I know everything. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather: But you know what hurts.

Christine: You know, it hurts. You know what hurts. And you know, somebody is able to occupy 90% of your thoughts. Yeah. Like, that's what fascinates me. When I read my diaries from, you know, age 12 to maybe 16, 17.  Like, wow, pages and pages and pages dedicated to different crushes and different very deep, real feelings, you know,

Heather: Yeah. I wonder to look at, you know, the difference between a boy and a girl, and then who, those in between, what the correlation is. Like, do a lot of boys find that they're thinking about girls, you know, to 90%? Or, is it more of a, a living in your feminine trait to have, you know, most of your thoughts predominantly, allocated to feelings?

Christopher: I think we think more about the physical, whereas you may think more about the connection. I think the percentages are probably the same. We just think more about the physical.

Christine: Interesting. Tell us more. That is Interesting.

Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's, I, I'm learning that is how men are stimulated, through visual connection. Right. So that's where our concentration goes. That's where our fantasies are, it’s on the physical of what we perceive, what we see, in the other person. So I believe, yeah, that's, the percentages are probably the same. As far as how much time we dedicate to another person in this infatuation, whatever it might be. However, just the way that we think about it is different.

Heather: And would you say that the physical, like that is for one specific person or that, that you become infatuated with, or is it more, you know, we've seen, especially in today's world, and we've talked about this with porn being a lot more rampant and, you know, people kind of more into casual dating and those sort of things. Is it just having that visual, no matter where you're getting it, or is it that there is quite a bit of an affinity towards one person?

Christopher: I believe for men. Me: I'll just talk about myself. I think that the physical is, can be transferred. Really, it's not about being obsessed with one individual, one person, one girl. That can happen too. However, I think that it's more just the physical connection to whomever it is that appeals to you at that time, and you take it in your mind further. Right. And that's, I think, it's more like that with guys. That's why we have a bad reputation.

.

Christine: Maybe misunderstood?

Christopher: There you go. There we go. I like that. I like that.

Christine: That bad reputation. Thank you. Misunderstood why that is, Uhhuh. And that's what I love about men is that there's always a reason behind their behaviors.

Christopher: It's interesting, though, if you look at it, and I do, we do this a lot, I do this a lot. I look into the animal kingdom, where it's pure, where there's no ego, there's no, you know, nothing else but just the nature of it. And you'll see male bulls, they want to have sex with every female within their tribe or group or pride, or whatever it might be. I don't know that human men are any different in that, you know, their nature is to be king of the pride. They want everything around them. So it's transferred to anyone that is appeals to that person at that given time or what they’re, what appeals to them.

Heather: Then in the animal kingdom, just that within, between each, you know, species, and that there's such diversity in what, on a biological level, they're looking for. You know, you have penguins who, the males, you know, they just have one partner and they stay with it. Right. So even in that, you know, in praying mantis, where she eats the guy's head. So there are all kinds of different, you know, archetypes

I think that Chris is a bull. I'm not gonna say if I'm praying mantis,

Christopher: You can choose an animal type if you like.

Christine: Oh my goodness. Yeah. I think it's very natural. It's just how do we then bring that into modern-day society? I mean, I think men and women spend a tremendous amount of time in guilt and shame and more guilt and more shame, because they have a desire for more than one person. And I think we spend a lot of time wishing that wouldn't happen, and that we're hoping when we walk down the aisle, that'll never happen again. And we'll never desire someone else. And I just, I think we need to look at that differently, you know. And I think that, yes, we make a commitment to one person and to deepen the connection with that person for the rest of our lives. But I think if we can bring lightness and fun to our attraction.

Christine: Maybe we steer clear of the word desire in our relationship, our attraction to other people. And I know, I see this in couples that have one struggled with that, where it made her or him very insecure, you know, to the point where he didn't like it when she dressed up because he could feel that desire from other men, and you know, so they had to work really hard at that. Like, yes, other people are gonna catch our eye, but my eye always comes back to you, and I'll never act on that sort of thing. But I still, to this day, hear people wanting to just shut out that complete desire and spending so much time and energy worried about their partners being attracted to other people so much that it’s never going to stop. So another couple, they make a game of it, that it's like, she'll say something like, Oh my gosh, did you see the red dress? Whoa. You know, like, yeah. And he'll be like, Oh yeah, I'm two steps ahead of you. Or where, and then he'll, you know, he'll chime in and be like, four o'clock, you know, barista, you know, or something. And it's not something they do all the time. But they keep it light. In that, it actually creates a little bit of fun sexual tension. Right between them, too. That's so refreshing. So refreshing.

Heather: Because I think that it creates that space and awareness around the fact that, you know, when you're in a committed relationship, that you're not blind. Yeah. You're not blind to what's around you. You don't just automatically have these, you know, and I think that that's why we've seen, you know, over the course of history, when you have to stifle that, that it can explode into making, going forward with those actions, you know, or that couples get to a point in their relationship where they maybe wanna try actually going outside of the relationship to try sexual experiences. And that they talk about what works for them. And we've, I think that we're living in a completely different time where, you know, you hear about open relationships, you hear about swingers, you hear about, you know, just different ways of having relationships, polyamory. And that if there are open means of communication that people are finding ways that really work for them,

Christopher: That takes a lot of strength that we are not necessarily bred into us, 'cause jealousy rules.

Heather: Yes. And envy.

Christopher: And envy. Yes.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Jealousy, envy.

Heather: I've been in some polyamorous relationships and had to look at, you know, when they're going out with someone else or telling me something that they really admire in that person, and just to feel that hurt that I'm not enough, I am not that thing that they're describing. And to work through what they like in that person doesn't negate what I have to offer and contribute to my relationship with that person or to other ones. I've discovered that polyamory is probably not for me, but I appreciate what it did for me.

Christine: Sure. It showed you what you're not.

Heather: It also made me a lot less jealous in relationships. Yeah. And envious. And it really helped deconstruct my ego. So I can see why people who have found polyamory and it's working, and I know a lot of couples that are very happy in that.,

Christine: You've had a different experience than I have around polyamory. Yeah. And good for you because I remember first hearing the term years and years and years ago. I mean, to the point where it was barely, maybe you get too results. Yeah. You know, for this polyamorous, because it was friends and I, we were having this discussion around, well, maybe we, maybe we're not monogamous. Maybe this isn't meant for us. I mean, this has become a more common conversation. But back then, nobody was really talking about it. So we're like, oh, well, what is this polyamory thing? So, I looked into it, read as much as I could, and then thought, I'm not going to judge it until I've actually been in the community

Heather: Yeah. Good for you. And so that was many moons ago, but it was communal living.

Christine: It was in California. I won't say where, but it was communal living. And, I have to say that in that particular community, I didn't stay long because I was thinking it was going to be an answer to something I was exploring, like maybe multiple partners is the thing for me. But all I got out of it is that it only brings out the worst in me. It only brings out jealousy, it brings out envy, it brings out mistrust. It brings out, and so I had to spend a lot of time almost making myself spend a lot of time almost making myself feel bad for feeling those natural things until finally I was like, wait a minute, this just isn't for me, because if I am, if I am actually not enjoying what I thought this was, and I was seeing those around me, and again, this was just one community.

Christine: There are many polyamorous communities that have been successful, but this particular one, I didn't see it. The only person I saw who was getting everything they wanted was the primary male, the leader. The leader, because there was a revolving door of ladies. I chose not to get involved with the leader. I was there, and honestly, I was there for observation. So I was going to their gatherings and their potlucks, and then just to kind of be at, I didn't, you know, in full transparency, I didn't actually engage in a polyamorous relationship. I just decided that this is so far from what I could ever be capable of, and since then, I've helped friends decide to stay or leave a polyamorous situation through really doing some soul searching. And you'd be amazed at how many people think that they have to stay because of what they've learned about it, or maybe their community, and that they're being selfish or something if they choose to go back to monogamy again and such. Not because you're in this world of like the ones I've been exposed to, but this really works. And look at how great it is. And you can, you know, have a deep connection with six different people, or three different people, or two different people. But it's not something that, you know, these friends of mine are like, but then I go to bed at night knowing that he's having sex with somebody else in the house, you know. And I feel bad that I'm not okay with that. And so one friend who was like, you feel bad, let's just get this straight. Yeah, exactly. You feel bad 'cause the man you made love with this morning is having sex with somebody else two bedrooms down right now. And you're feeling bad because you're upset about that. Okay.

Heather: Yeah. You know, being open to hearing what you know your soul is saying is or is not working for you.

Christine: Exactly.

Christopher: So, where do we get these ideas that X is correct, X is wrong? Like, which of these two is right, and which is wrong?  Like, who decides, and how do we come to decide that?

Heather: I think it's gotta be from a personal level. And if you are interested enough to try it, you're able to explore that. But knowing that if it isn't right for you, and that it’s okay to step out of it and not have that guilt.

Christopher: Again, going back to that shame and guilt.

Heather: Yeah. Guilt.

Christopher Yeah. There's guilt and shame. Peace. Where does that come from, 'cause we have to have in our minds that this is right or this is wrong in order to go there to this guilt, shame, peace. Like, where's that implanted in us?

Heather: I think that in our surrounding communities and how we create purpose around the various circles that we're in, if you were to be in a living circumstances where you're surrounded only by this, and everyone there is saying it's so wonderful, how can you not be like us when we feel it's wonderful I think that when that environment is around you, there's shame. That's part of it.

Christopher: So, what is natural to a human being just born? What is natural? Which of these two paths is natural because we're just talking about being programmed by your surroundings, your community, your tribe? That's where you get this implant of, this is right, or this is wrong for me, values. So, the pure human being, where does that human being drift?

Heather: Because I feel like, you know, in our most natural sense, and when we're talking about, you know, our first love or crush, that love is flowing freely. Right. And then you get a little more fixated on one person. But we also hear about that attraction to many people. So what may be it is finding what works for us. In feeling that love and letting it flow, and seeing if it wants to stay attuned to more than one person. And how that naturally develops. Or if, you know, we've seen with the rise of casual dating that you're going to try what that connection is with many people, and then it can narrow down depending on how that connection deepens with one individual.

Christine: Yeah. I think if you were to get everyone in a, you know, a soundproof booth and said, nobody is gonna hear what you say, tell me, what do you want, what do you really want? And I would say most people, I would hazard to say 90% say I want a deep connection with one person. You know, I want a deep, soulful, meaningful, be seen, you know, rock your world relationship with one person at one point in my life. Right. Like, I think in our own ways, that's what we're all moving towards. For some of us, that deep desire won't show up until we're in our fifties, in our sixties. And until that time, we are exploring. But you also have to be okay with, you know, sometimes you'll wake up after exploring, exploring, exploring, and going like, okay, exploration isn't working for me anymore. I would rather just focus on one person.

Christine: Other people, like, it's amazing. Right out of high school, they knew exactly. what they wanted. You know, before I was even in university, I was hearing people getting married with babies, you know, but that's their path. And I think when you were asking that question, I thought it was a very individual question. I have to look at integrity, which has always been something, you know, that's, I look at the integrity of situations. I look at the integrity of people and just how we can, just as cliché as it sounds, how can we just be mindful of other people and treat each other well. And I think we filter a lot of our decisions. We go off the rails. Sometimes we sidetrack, but we do filter it through what we feel is our definition of integrity. You know, I've certainly, that's helped me at least personally make the right decisions.

Christopher: Yeah. I'd be interested in that survey that you just talked about, of putting a hundred people in a room. Yes. A hundred, say 50/50 male-female. I would love to see if the answers come out the same on that topic.

Heather: Yes, that would be very interesting. That would be, if it were completely anonymous. Yeah. And that they could be completely honest. Absolutely. To know that would be such a cool exercise.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I can say the, 'cause I've been doing this for a long time, and the amount of people that I've worked with, that kind of, when I ask 'em these questions, what do you want How they're not quite sure if they can say what they really want, but when they do it is always a deep soulful connection with one person. Trusting always. And this has been 16 years of asking. 'Cause it's a natural thing. And working in this world, you wanna know what you're, you know, who you're working with and what they want. And then the great thing is if they answer it in a different way, then I have places to refer them, 'cause they're not looking for that right. Soulful connection with one person.

Heather: Have you ever heard a soulful connection with multiple people?

Christine: Not successfully. To be honest, not successfully. You could ask maybe somebody else, and they may have, but there's always an underlying tone there. There's always a little bit of, faking it. Faking that you're okay with something that you're truly not even in the swinger community, there's usually one person in the dynamic that's actually on a soul level, not okay with it, which causes a lot of distress. But they're going on, they're going ahead with it, 'cause they're trying to please their partner. But it's rare that, you know, that both are like a hundred percent, and we can get confused because those are generally the leaders of the community. Is that they're both like 100%? But then the followers are the people who want to belong and be a part of that tribe. Yes. It's usually one that's not actually cool with it.

Heather: Interesting.

Christopher: There's this shift women have made over the last 50 years or so into being more on the masculine side. How is that?  Have you seen an impact in relationships when a woman is coming from that perspective as opposed to her feminine side, because you need that, you need that difference? You need that polarity. And to really add, you know, excitement to the relationship. So if a woman is on her masculine side, he's on his feminine side, how, what have you seen over the last little while that has real impact?

Christine: It’s a three-hour podcast, right?

Christopher: You know what, though, we can always have you back.

Christine: I was just thinking, where can I go with that first well? I'll come back to your word polarity and the necessity of polarity to exist in relationships for them to be, for there to be that magnetic. Yes. attraction Explosion. Yes. Explosion. And, I think that's the first place that you need to go in terms of creating more polarity. And it only comes from when one's in their feminine, one's in their masculine, and not to, I think I wanna define sometimes men when they think of being in, you know, they're feminine, they're not quite sure what we mean by that. But it just goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning. More in a receive mode. You know, not necessarily feminine. Feminine, it's more of a receiving mode, more of a being mode, rather than a doing mode.

Christine: So, my book that I wrote was back in 2009, and so much has happened in my life since then, but I would say that that was one of the first times that I really looked at all of my female clients were alpha women, really having a hard time in dating. And so I wasn't finding role models here. So I traveled to Brazil and France to see women there and how they interacted and how they operated. And I found it just fascinating how like the polarity there was so intense. And so different even in the two countries. And so I remember coming back like, oh my gosh, I need to write about this, but I need to bring it into a way that is accessible for the everyday woman so that we don't feel that in order to get back into our found and we need to go out into the jungle for six months, you know, and that we need to do all of that.

Christine: Like what can we do on a daily basis? So, my book is a very, very light read. I'm in the process of putting something together that is much more in-depth and much more about what's been going on in my world in the last seven years. And I'm excited about that. But as you know, with books, they take a while, and they take on their own timeline. And so I feel like if you can just do one thing a day that puts you in touch with your femininity, that can help. And it also works as an inspiration for men as well. Oh, there's so much I wanna say on it, but for them to stay in their masculine to support that feminine.  Yes. And be inspired.

Heather: What about them going into their feminine and when she needs him to be in his feminine and, you know, just to pose the question also, what about same-sex relationships where they both live in feminine or both in masculine, but it fluctuates. Right. And that is interesting. That sometimes the two feminine connect and sometimes the two masculine. And I've seen that, and it's also beautiful.

Christine: I think at the end of the day, somebody is still in the supporter role, kind of, and somebody is still in like production role in a way. So it's kind of, how do you, like, when a woman, I'll go to your first point. First, when she's in her masculine, it's amazing to have the man more in his feminine because she knows that things are going to be looked after in a way. Like it's kind of supporting her in her masculine and maybe she's got to get a file to her boss by three o’clock, and he says something like, okay, you've got that. I'll make sure that the kids are, you know, quiet downstairs, and we're gonna go, or we're gonna go play a game outside. And that is a way of supporting each other, too. And a nice way of showing an example of masculine in feminine mode.

Christine: How it can play out in both roles, I think. Yeah. Masculine and feminine. Feminine can definitely, you know, play out in a beautiful way. I haven't myself done a ton of exploration in that. I'm more about balancing the feminine and masculine between us, but I'm sure there are lots of examples as well. We just have to look at, you know, at women's groups. How everybody's in their feminine, you know, the leaders generally, like when I've led women's groups, I need to have a workshop leader next to me that is in their masculine, and I can stay in my feminine. So I have to keep that balance. If I don't have a workshop manager with me, then I spend more time in my masculine and it doesn't help everybody there.

Heather: Same relation being rather than directing.

Christine: Exactly. Yeah. So that happened to me recently, and it was so great to have support there, and then the masculine, and I would say yeah. In a men's group, too, it would be another example.

Heather: Watching those energy shifts, right? Yeah. That sometimes they are right at the same time. But it's like, I've noticed in moments where I'm more in my masculine and I'm with somebody in their masculine, how it shifts in between the feminine and you know, it's, it's just more fluid. That's what it feels like in those moments, but I can, I can appreciate what you're saying in leading those groups that have that kind of counterbalance with you and a workshop manager to stay present with the energy that you want to be living in for that particular circumstance. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. I think, though, the last thing I'll say on that is that I think I've seen more fights and such happen with couples when they're both in their masculine. So, it is well worth exploring ways that you can not both be battling for the masculine role in the relationship at the same time that you can both explore it. You could both have, but not at the same time. There seems to be a high correlation there with disconnect, resentment, and lack of connection, you know.  That's been my experience. Yeah.

Christopher: Yeah. So, since this is such a fascinating topic and we both are enthralled by that topic, we would love to have you come back sometime.

Christine: Wonderful.

Christopher: And talk with us again, and maybe explore that angle a little bit further. Obviously, we have to respect people's time.

Heather: Yes.

Christopher: Sometimes the doors to the club have to close. So that's where we're heading. However, it has been fascinating to have you here with us.

Heather: It's wonderful to have you with us. Thank you!

Christine: Yeah. Thank you.

Christopher: Thanks for sharing all that you have experienced over these years and your work. And, we look forward to connecting with you again. We invite you back whenever you choose to come back and be with us.

Christine: Thank you. I'd love to come back. This has been fun.

Christopher: Good. So you've been listening to

Heather: The Virgin,

Christopher: The Beauty

Heather: and the Bitch.

Christopher: I'm  Christopher.

Heather: And I'm Heather.

Christopher: Check us out online, check us out on iTunes, and enjoy.